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razorseal

This makes me want to cry

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You obviously don't work with hardware/software :). I don't mean that in a mean way but if you did you would understand that what you are asking for is a "perfect world". It doesn't exist in technology but it would certainly be nice...But your last line contradicts your entire argument. FSUIPC, wx Program, virus Checker are not MS products. LVL-D, PMDG, PSS, ASV and all these add-ons WE add to FS are what cause issues. You can't blame MS for that or expect them to know about everything we have added to our systems over the years. I can't remember hearing a SINGLE person who had issues like we have today with Stock FS9 years ago...We tweak, we add we play with fire...PaulPrimary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E6600 @3.2 gigsAsus P5N32SLI-Plus2 gigs Corsair XMS PC6400 4 4 4 12 @810Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLIhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg


Have a Wonderful Day

-Paul Solk

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Guest PARADISE

Interesting posts. Like many of us, I have had this happen also. I always wondered, since the "CTD" acts like you clicked on the "X" (or "exit program" icon) that it could be a series of events that are happening at the same time, (ie-weather update,new scenery loading,new AI traffic,etc.) that is causing the program to think that you clicked the "X" and therefore closes the program immediately.I'm not that computer savy, but I've always thought that computers basically have to be told what to do. If so, it seems to me that something is telling the computer falsely to close the program. Of course the million dollar question is, "what?"John M

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This scenery/texture thing requires a bit of knowledge .. you have it, I do not. But I can follow direstions to get the job done.*************----->I have a copy of my default FS9 install on my HD that I backed up prior to adding any add-ons. I use that but you can restore them from a CD *************Is this one file, one directory, or several directories that are all part of MSFS9?***>How long do you have to wait before textures ultimately become>corrupt? What corrupts them in the first place?----->A lot of things, repeated access, FS closing while they are being loaded etc... It can happen at any time same way you can lose a word .doc at anytime***I thought texture files were Read but not Written to (changed.How does a read file become corrupted?I also thought if a file was corrupted it would also be corrupt the next time you flew the same scenery the next day ... it would not self-correct a damaged file!****>What is <>I have also recently reverted to the process of[br />>"de-bloating" my ****How do you do this? de-blote thing?**----->Not so although that would make sense. FS will randomly reload its entire scenery DB and add-on scenery DB during your flights. You can watch it happen with Filemon. Also if an add-on scenery is not coded correctly it could be referred to as global rather than local and get loaded everytime your scenery reloads which is more than you think...**I did not know this and it does not make sense.I thought MSFS9 used a scenery "cache" and it only loaded it once?This saves trips back to the CD or the hard drive for textures when it need them.I also thought if ASIA eg was not "selected/checked marked" in the screnery configuration it would never be loaded?How do you selectively load only the scenery/textures you will be using for your current flight?I have looked thru the MSFS9 scenery directory and it is in some kind of code likw c999000 for Michigan/Atlanta whatever...Is this the stuff that loads more than once during your flights?Cannot understand why it needs to reload anything.Should be load it once, run it until FS9 is shut down. If there are errors during the flight ... report the error to the user.


Best Regards,

Vaughan Martell - KDTW

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**You obviously don't work with hardware/software :). I don't mean that in a mean way but if you did you would understand that what you are asking for is a "perfect world". **I owned and operated a computer repair company for 15 years in southern California.Built/repaired pcs/networks etc. Enought said on that.***But your last line contradicts your entire argument. FSUIPC, wx Program, virus Checker are not MS products. LVL-D, PMDG, PSS, ASV and all these add-ons WE add to FS are what cause issues***Sorry if I confused the issue.When a program/application/ or calls by programs are made, threads .. whatever is running, "the errors" MS Windows Operating System should be able to trap the error and identify what caused it.*We tweak, we add we play with fire...*If we know wat module caused the problemI have been tweeking for many years ... correct, we do a lot of it.


Best Regards,

Vaughan Martell - KDTW

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>This scenery/texture thing requires a bit of knowledge .. you>have it, I do not. But I can follow direstions to get the job>done.>>*************>----->I have a copy of my default FS9 install on my HD that I>backed up prior to adding any add-ons. I use that but you can>restore them from a CD >*************>Is this one file, one directory, or several directories that>are all part of MSFS9?-------------->>***>>How long do you have to wait before textures ultimately>become>>corrupt? What corrupts them in the first place?>----->A lot of things, repeated access, FS closing while they>are being loaded etc... It can happen at any time same way you>can lose a word .doc at anytime>***>I thought texture files were Read but not Written to>(changed.>How does a read file become corrupted?>>I also thought if a file was corrupted it would also be>corrupt the next time you flew the same scenery the next day>... it would not self-correct a damaged file!>>>****>>What is <>I have also recently reverted to the process of[br>/>>"de-bloating" my >****>How do you do this? de-blote thing?>>>**>----->Not so although that would make sense. FS will randomly>reload its entire scenery DB and add-on scenery DB during your>flights. You can watch it happen with Filemon. Also if an>add-on scenery is not coded correctly it could be referred to>as global rather than local and get loaded everytime your>scenery reloads which is more than you think...>**>I did not know this and it does not make sense.>>I thought MSFS9 used a scenery "cache" and it only loaded it>once?>This saves trips back to the CD or the hard drive for textures>when it need them.>>I also thought if ASIA eg was not "selected/checked marked" in>the screnery configuration it would never be loaded?>>How do you selectively load only the scenery/textures you will>be using for your current flight?>>I have looked thru the MSFS9 scenery directory and it is in>some kind of code likw c999000 for Michigan/Atlanta>whatever...>>Is this the stuff that loads more than once during your>flights?>>Cannot understand why it needs to reload anything.>>Should be load it once, run it until FS9 is shut down. If>there are errors during the flight ... report the error to the>user.>OK, lot of questions so let me try and hit them all in one shot. I am trying to simultaneously post another post at the same time to answer a lot of these questions :)>Is this one file, one directory, or several directories that>are all part of MSFS9?One DirectoryIt is the Scenery/World/Texture Directory. Not sure what CD this directory is on to restore it.I thought texture files were Read but not Written to (changed.How does a read file become corrupted?A read file can easily become corrupted just as a write file. Look at your O/S. Any Hidden/System/Read Only File can be corrupt at any given time. Look at how easily video drivers corrupt if you use an Nvidia card and we don't write to those...I also thought if a file was corrupted it would also be corrupt the next time you flew the same scenery the next day ... it would not self-correct a damaged file!You are correct. But if the file was not corrupt but just "misplaced" (not where the system wanted it to be on the HD)then it could be found the next time around. Computers are far less logical than people think.I thought MSFS9 used a scenery "cache" and it only loaded it once?This saves trips back to the CD or the hard drive for textures when it need them.Yes and No. It will cache them but it will continously reload from Cache throughout the flight. Scenery Does not load once at the beginning of an FS session and that is it. It is a continual process that goes on for the length of your flight. The question is WHAT and HOW MUCH is being pulled from cache.I also thought if ASIA eg was not "selected/checked marked" in the screnery configuration it would never be loaded?Correct and that is what I do. I uncheck all of my add-ons at all times. Then I enable the sceneries I am going to use for a particular journeyHow do you selectively load only the scenery/textures you will be using for your current flight? As described above.-PaulPrimary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E6600 @3.2 gigsAsus P5N32SLI-Plus2 gigs Corsair XMS PC6400 4 4 4 12 @810Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLIhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg


Have a Wonderful Day

-Paul Solk

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Sorry wasn't trying to be rude or demeaning so I apologize but you of all people should understand what you are asking for doesn't exist as much as we would all love it to... :(Should be but never going to happen unless the offending module has an API into the O/S to TELL the O/S what it is doing. Otherwise the O/S never knows to look for it. In this case the responsibility lies on the add-on module to notify the O/S what it is doing via a call most likely key, string or api.You are preaching to the choir though man we would all love what you are asking for but the best we've got is FileMon ;)Primary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E6600 @3.2 gigsAsus P5N32SLI-Plus2 gigs Corsair XMS PC6400 4 4 4 12 @810Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLIhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg


Have a Wonderful Day

-Paul Solk

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On my system.If I click the X MSFS9 asks "are you sure you want to close MSFS9" and the I click YES.That is a normal shutdown.If Windows encounters a problem it will say "xx program / DLL whatever caused yy problem and Windows must shut down now".This is better.But our problem is something "happened" and Windows voided MSFS9 from memory and returned to the desktop without an "error" message.Just as if, like you said, you had selectes the X to shut down the clicked OK to actually shut it down.


Best Regards,

Vaughan Martell - KDTW

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Guest PARADISE

I stand corrected, I forgot that we have to approve the exit command when exiting FS via the "X". I guess I'm wondering what exactly takes place inside the computer when we click on "exit", ( what switches or circuits are put into motion by this command ) that causes it to shut down the program and could there be some series of events (other than a normal shutdown) that can fool the computer into thinking that the exit command has been issued. John M

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**Should be but never going to happen unless the offending module has an API into the O/S to TELL the O/S what it is doing.**If any offending program had/has a problem with its software then it should "crash" until it is patched to correct the problem. Don't know how they could report their own error that caused it to crash .. anyway I am not a software guy. I just know that every event is tracked somewhere and it should be possible to report it. Like part of a debug routine Windows enters for trapping and reporting the error.Windows "knows" what caused the problem! Which one did the wrong call/whatever.Sometimes I have seen the message saying "do you want to send this information to MS?The error dump is all in code (hex) ... they know what happened!


Best Regards,

Vaughan Martell - KDTW

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Right, exactly the missing "link" here.MSFS9 just "disappears" off the face of the world (screen)!No error, no nothing.What is so powerful that the entire exit from MSFS9 can occure "without" MS Windows "knowing" it happened? AND, MS Windows continues running as if MSFS were never loaded/running.What other programs besided MSFS have just "disappeared" for no apparenr reason on your computer? On my computer the only program that has ever "gone away without a trace" is MSFS.We sure did not click(s) on something to shut it down!


Best Regards,

Vaughan Martell - KDTW

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You are sort of oversimplifying this a bit...A program can crash and then you restart and it never crashes again. This is what computers do. Software is all about timing. It has to be precise for software to function correctly. FS can make 800-1000 calls per second. To track all of them would take GIGS of data. "If any offending program had/has a problem with its software then it should "crash" until it is patched to correct the problem. Don't know how they could report their own error that caused it to crash"Again, you are being so black and white and perfect world. Software doesn't work like that. I have seen errors for months that magically go away one day and never come back. Even the developers have no idea what happened. Windows "knows" what caused the problem! Says who? Who says those logs carry relevant data? Have you ever combed through thousands of lines of logs trying to do problem resolution of a software issue? Do you think we just get a clear message telling us X caused Y at Z? Are you kidding? You get thousands of lines of garbage and you spend hours, days, months and sometimes years trying to figure it out.But maybe you are right and it is all one big conspiracy and MS knows the answer to every crash that has ever happened in FS like you are implying...OK, I'm done now this is turning into an MS conspiracy theory and really not showing any value anymore. If you want to sit here and get upset at MS have at it. I have worked in Software for years and you are just way off base in your assumptions, no offense intended.Cheers, good luck,-PaulPrimary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E6600 @3.2 gigsAsus P5N32SLI-Plus2 gigs Corsair XMS PC6400 4 4 4 12 @810Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLIhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg


Have a Wonderful Day

-Paul Solk

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Why do we see this error message, sometimes?This xx caused a problem and Windows has to Shut Down Now?Or, the application must be shut down.Restart the computer now?By the way, I am not upset.But, I think you are.In my opinion, errors should be trapped and reported to MS. Period.We should always be able to answer the question when prompted "Do you want to report this to MS?" and click on "yes" and get it sent off to MS.That will help MS to make it a perfect MSFS world. Right?Again, this is my opinion.You may not agree with this.


Best Regards,

Vaughan Martell - KDTW

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Any untrapped application error can cause this sort of crash to desktop without error information. Windows doesn't insert debugging code and doesn't routinely 'know' what caused an error (and, incidentally, neither does any other OS that I've ever worked with over the past 40 years). I've seen many, many, applications crash in this fashion - VB6, Visual Studio, and numerous games are some of the many. MSFS is not the only offender by a long shot!DJ

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I'm not upset with you but this isn't going anywhere productive anymore it is just an MS should do a better job at fixing things conversation without understanding everything that goes into it or understanding it is not FS9 that is the issue but the add-ons...To answer your question you get an error saying IEXPLORE.exe has caused an error and must be shut down. You say ok and ALL your browser windows shut down. That doesn't tell you what in Internet explorer caused the error it just knows it didn't like something and shut down. You don't get told that line 2,265 had an extra space at the end of a word that had been VI'd on a server halfway around the world. Most error messages even with their hex information are not that helpful from a troubleshooting perspective. That is just the real world. It is like the Check Engine light in your car. It just knows something is wrong, not necessarily what...Anyone can report their errors to MS but like I said the amount of time to go through those errors are mind blowing and then how much of it provides useful information is minimal. Getting them to look at FS9 issues now FSX is out is not going to happen. It is just software evolution 101.There is no perfect world in Software, that is why I am bowing out of this conversation. What you are asking for is just impossible when it comes to computer software. You can have your opinion and your desire for MS to be able to troubleshoot every error that every FS user gets taking into account all the different variables but like I said it is a dream world and I do not feel I can provide any more value in this conversation.Cheers-Paul Primary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E6600 @3.2 gigsAsus P5N32SLI-Plus2 gigs Corsair XMS PC6400 4 4 4 12 @810Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLIhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg


Have a Wonderful Day

-Paul Solk

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>Any untrapped application error can cause this sort of crash>to desktop without error information. Windows doesn't insert>debugging code and doesn't routinely 'know' what caused an>error (and, incidentally, neither does any other OS that I've>ever worked with over the past 40 years). I've seen many,>many, applications crash in this fashion - VB6, Visual Studio,>and numerous games are some of the many. MSFS is not the only>offender by a long shot!>>DJAll fair enough.I am not a software type.IMO, I "thought" this unknown stuff (error trap routine/code) was captured and then you were presented with a screen .. Do you want to send this to MS?They will read the "code" that caused the error and fix it in the next patch .. or tell the offending software vendor they have ha problem.But, I have only observed these CTD with MSFS.Other programs I have used have caused problems, errored, shut down but not CTD.This problem, CTD, is one that many have tried to fix ... but why it happens remains "unfixed".


Best Regards,

Vaughan Martell - KDTW

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