PMDG raises prices for US customers?

[JDWalley 354]

>A more reasoned viewpoint would be to say that PMDG realise>that going down the FSX only route will hurt their sales>because they are excluding the sizeable part of the customer>base who are staying with FS9. Maybe in the short term (although they certainly intend to continue selling their current FS9 products, so the only part of the customer base they will miss will be with their new products).However, in the long run (as I stated before), this will be a cash cow for PMDG. By releasing their new products as FSX-only, they will force those who really, really want their MD-11 (the same can be said for Level-D and its upcoming FSX-only 757) to make the jump to FSX. I think the gamble is that, once the user gets some workable high-quality add-ons going for FSX, they'll be less inclined to keep both flight sims on their drive, or switch between them if they want to fly one plane or another. What they'll want is to have everything working on FSX. And what does that mean? Back to PMDG for FSX-compatible versions of the 737NG and 747-400 they already have on FS9...and at the new prices. As I pointed out earlier, that will work out to around $160 total, if prices stay the same and PMDG doesn't raise them for these new FSX versions.Compare this to F-lite's A340 (which, although it isn't in the same league of detailed realism as PMDG, seems to be a highly-regarded product). I was able to pick it up at a local retailer, in boxed form, for $29.99...and it will work in both FS9 and FSX.

[Guest A32X]

Do you think it's moral to change a dollar sign to a euro sign and not tell your customers? I find it very worrying that you state 'it happened almost 2 weeks ago' i.e. on the old website

[CanadaOne 36]

Ryan,No one should blame you for company policy and I'm sorry about any threats. That's completely out of line and inexcusable.As for the deletion of threads, I still do not agree, I think it will alienate customers and make the company look afraid and weaselish. Since the company does not allow discussion on their site, we'll talk about it here.

[Bob Scott 7,714]

>I'm sorry guys - we do not allow discussion of our internal>business matters in our forum. I did not make the rule and>I'm not singling anyone out.Of course the prices that PMDG charges for its products, and the currency they are charged in are anything but "internal" business matters, unless customers are no longer expected to pay for the product.Sorry, but that's a that's a bull***t dodge of the issue, Ryan. You may not be singling anyone out, but by censoring customer questions on the issue, you're still part of the problem.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

[JDWalley 354]

First off, I'm sorry that people have been threatening you via e-mail. However ticked-off people may be at PMDG, there's no reason to make it personal.Second, I think the idea of quoting the forum rule rather than simply deleting "objectionable" posts is a good one -- at the very least, it will reduce the paranoia that can arise from "that post was here a few minutes ago, and now it's gone!" experiences.Finally, I would hope that said rules only apply to the PMDG support forum, and that we're not facing censorship if we express sentiments less-than-complementary to PMDG on this forum.

[JDWalley 354]

One further note: as I mentioned above, I got an e-mail from PMDG explaining the new pricing. In it, they explained the raise in prices on the exchange rate being bad at this time (to quote: "the dollar, unfortunately, is in a slump")...however, as others have pointed out, that excuse is meaningless since the change meant an effective 35% price increase in euros, too. The value of the dollar against the euro had nothing to do with it.

[Guest Jeff Berman]

Here's a quote from a Robert. Think about it. taxes and 85% of the customer base is in Europe....does that help you to understand :) "I'm not sure any of this allows me to add "International Businessman" to my resume- but, all of the above when considered in combination with the drubbing we've taken on the exchange rate, the preferential tax basis under which we can operate on the Euro, a change in our merchant services provider in order to provide more form-of-payment options for our european customers, (did i mention 85% are in europe? and believe it-or-not Visa/Mastercard/Discover and AMEX don't cover the whole european credit card market...) the dramatic change over the past two years in our market price point relative to our competitors (often buried in tiers making our products extremely inexpensive by comparison) and the fact that PMDG has never raised prices in ten years of history make it somewhat transparent why we switched to the euro some time ago...I'm not sure what any of the above has to do with "ethics" as you charge, per se... but obviously some folks will always be upset when/if we raise prices. It happens occasionally in business- but believe it or not- there is no hidden evil conspiracy behind it. It is just sound business policy and we ARE a business!"

[Tabs 2,790]

>I think the gamble is>that, once the user gets some workable high-quality add-ons>going for FSX, they'll be less inclined to keep both flight>sims on their drive, or switch between them if they want to>fly one plane or another. What they'll want is to have>everything working on FSX. And what does that mean? >Back to PMDG for FSX-compatible versions of the 737NG and>747-400 they already have on FS9...and at the new prices. As>I pointed out earlier, that will work out to around $160>total, if prices stay the same and PMDG doesn't raise>them for these new FSX versionsEven if that was the correct scenario (which it isn't), what exactly would be wrong with that? Who's forcing you to use FSX? We have an NG and 744 that will continue to operate perfectly well in FS9 for all eternity. The new NGX by the way, is not an update on top of the existing one (which started as an FS2002 product nearly 6 years ago that we updated for FREE to FS2004, which some of you seem to have forgotten) it is being fully recoded from scratch - that means new FMC, new autopilot, new visual model and so on. It will be without a doubt the most advanced aircraft ever seen in any version of FS.I'm just curious by the way - why is it always us that get slammed whenever the community decides it has a bone to pick? There are plenty of people charging prices that in almost no way correlate to the quality or completeness of their products (which I don't believe to be the case with us), there are other companies who are going FSX-only with new products as well (in fact I'd say LDS's 757 situation nearly exactly mirrors what's happened with our MD-11) and yet, it seems like it's all PMDG all the time as far as the criticism goes. I guess we should take this as some sort of perverted compliment?>Compare this to F-lite's A340 (which, although it isn't in the same>league of detailed realism as PMDG, seems to be a highly-regarded>product). I was able to pick it up at a local retailer, in boxed form, >for $29.99...and it will work in both FS9 and FSX.As someone who is also a simmer and buys addons just like everyone else, I personally can't believe this comparison. I am in no way knocking their product, but seriously, PMDG, LDS, AXP, etc and this are two completely different things. You could basically go take a 747 type rating test after learning our plane inside out - you would be at home sitting in the real aircraft and know how to operate it. Can you seriously say the same of casual addons like this? The answer is most definitely no. Does that justify the higher prices of high end addons that give you that level of simulation and immersion to the point where you could clearly operate a real airline simulator with the knowledge? I personally think it does, and this isn't just bias - I buy addons too. This A340 costs slightly less than our NG - compare what you can do and learn with them both and then evaluate your position again.

[JDWalley 354]

>...and the fact that PMDG has never raised prices in ten years of history...With all due respect, that's a fairly meaningless claim in this context. PMDG's main products have come out in the last three years (does anyone here really care about the price of 757 for Fly! not having increased?), and were quite high-priced at the time (including the 800/900 "add-on" to the 737NG that cost almost as much as the original product...and, as people noted, the 747-400 was the first FS airplane to break the $50 barrier, barely a couple of years ago).By the same token, Rolls-Royce could go ten years without raising prices, and it still wouldn't make the Silver Shadow underpriced.

[psolk 3,037]

It's not sound business practice to alienate and anger your customer base. The wise thing to do would have been to convert to Euros and then drop the price of the existing products to compensate. If you then want to charge 54.95 in euros for new releases that is an acceptable shift. Like others have stated though, to take a product that has been available for over a year at 54.95 and change the $ sign to a Euro and make the same product $80 is BS. I think that is what has people so up in arms here. Especially for a US company. Can't wait for Target to charge me in Sterling because they can get 2-1 for the dollar...Personally, if they want to move to the euro moving forward that is their prerogative BUT BUT BUT to retro-actively raise prices on already available products is BS. Personally I wouldn't "really" care if a PMDG add-on goes up to $80 in the future if an Arian 737 costs well over $100 but I will not accept the same product that has been 54.95 for ages suddenly and with no increased features or functionality jumping in price like this. I understand what PMDG is trying to do but they should have done it "moving forward" not by jacking up existing prices...Just my .02,-Paul

[JDWalley 354]

>>I think the gamble is>>that, once the user gets some workable high-quality add-ons>>going for FSX, they'll be less inclined to keep both flight>>sims on their drive, or switch between them if they want to>>fly one plane or another. What they'll want is to have>>everything working on FSX. And what does that mean? >>Back to PMDG for FSX-compatible versions of the 737NG and>>747-400 they already have on FS9...and at the new prices. >As>>I pointed out earlier, that will work out to around $160>>total, if prices stay the same and PMDG doesn't raise>>them for these new FSX versions>>Even if that was the correct scenario (which it isn't), what>exactly would be wrong with that? Who's forcing you to use>FSX? With all due respect, you're trying to change the subject.The question isn't whether anyone is forcing the consumer to use FSX. The question is whether or not it would be in PMDG's interest to encourage people to adopt FSX instead of FS9, so that they can sell them new versions of products they already own. I can't see how anyone wouldn't see that the answer to that is "yes" -- in spades. It's no different from film studios working to boost the fledgling DVD format a decade ago, knowing that they'd be able to sell their "back catalog" all over again. Again, there's nothing immoral about it...as long as everyone realizes this is the situation.

[Farlis 2,277]

>I know we are not the only economy in the world and I do>understand that. I guess PMDG figured, well the Europeans have>no problem paying the additional cost for our products. Why>not go to EURO only and get everyone to pay the additional>cost for our products.If you ask me anyone with any sense of economic buying would have rather bought the download version of PMDG products instead of the boxed Aerosoft ones. The difference in pricing for the 747 shows that quite clearly. Boxed version is 59.99 Euro, new download price is 54.99 Euro and it used to be USD.

[Tabs 2,790]

JD, Bob, others,I'm not going to discus the Euro issue beyond what Robert posted. You have all the right in the world to disagree with our decision, but it stands and we have our reasons for doing it. I would however ask you to think about the cost of one of our products divided out over the amount of time you spend using and enjoying it (I know it's years for me in the case of other companies' addons I've bought) and think about price in that context, the context of learning to fly one of these aircraft in the real world, and the context of how much time and energy we put into building these things before you decide anything is unfair.

[JDWalley 354]

>It's not sound business practice to alienate and anger your>customer base. The wise thing to do would have been to>convert to Euros and then drop the price of the existing>products to compensate. If you then want to charge 54.95 in>euros for new releases that is an acceptable shift.Or even, as many companies have done, to announce "sorry, but we're going to have to raise our prices" on such-and-such a day...and then offer consumers the chance to buy at the old prices until then. I've seen that happen any number of times, and it generally results in a quick blip of sales during the "grace period," with the company still being able to charge the higher price thereafter. Beyond that, it leaves the consumer less reason to complain, as it will appear to them that the company bent over backwards to give them a "last chance."I think what most people are objecting to is not the price rise per se, but the way in which it was done by simply changing a currency symbol without any other sign...although I will grant, in the scenarios I mentioned above, that those companies rarely raised prices 35% in one fell swoop...possibly, had it been a couple of 15% increases a year or so apart, it would have seemed more reasonable and looked less like simple avarice. (BTW, an interesting question: how many companies have raised prices on their existing add-ons at all -- new and improved versions not included -- let alone by 35%?)

[Guest A32X]

How can you state that the 737 'will be without a doubt the most advanced aircraft ever seen in any version of FS.' Can PMDG also predict the future now? What's more your calling fellow developers products (LDS and AXP) casual addons? I think those statement really show the utter arrogance of PMDG. Just as a comparison can you imagine if BMW showrooms in America changed the dollar sign to Euros on the forecourt models and hushed it up?