Complex Taxi Instructions!

[Reset XPDR 1,271]

Today I landed at LEMD rwy 36L and was greeted by the following taxi instruction from ATC:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/172353.jpgI nearly needed to file an IFR ground plan to find my gate! Luckily, the unrealistic (but certainly helpful in this case) purple line got me where I needed to go :)Anyone else encountered a similarly complex taxi instruction?Gary

[Guest LeeWang]

:-lolThat is funny... You had to have hit the "say again" button at least 10 times to copy that down...Maybe that bug was fixed in FSX :-rollLee

[postpone 0]

First time I saw this I got totally confused left the airportat the nearest exit and headed off into the local town... quite a squeeze down some of the streets.. :-badteeth ... :-lol

[Dirk98 354]

Have not seen it yet. Doesn't mean it won't happen one day, interesting.

[RFields5421 1]

A computer is a very literal thing with no imagination.That airport is laid out so that almost every single taxi segment has a different name. There are 78 different named taxiway segments - and MS didn't come up with them. That's from a real airport chart.The single taxiway running parallel to 18L/36R has seven different names for parts of the Z taxiway.So while a real controller would probably say "via Zulu taxiways to Victor 2" a computer reads back each segment name individually.Large airports are complex and confusing. I'm shocked when a plane acutally makes it straight to the correct terminal at LFPG.I was on the shuttle with a US Airways pilot who flew the B733 we were on into KDFW a few years ago. I asked him about the approach because it was the first time I'd ever actually flown over the Maverick VOR in the middle of the airport with a circle to land on 18L. He said he asked for an approach to let him land on the west side of the airport - USA was in terminal B at that time - because "If we landed on the runway they wanted me to use - 17L - I would not know how to get to the terminal"Probably a simplification, but almost every time I go out to KDFW for spotting - I hear someone lost/confused and asking for more taxi directions on the ground channel.

[Guest PARADISE]

If that were ever to happen in real life you would turn to your co-pilot and say," You're airplane ".John M

[Guest RonB49]

"Probably a simplification, but almost every time I go out to KDFW for spotting - I hear someone lost/confused and asking for more taxi directions on the ground channel."I seem to recall, from a few years ago, that DFW was one of the few airports that required transponders to be on and transponding during taxi. Do you suppose this is why?R-

[RFields5421 1]

I think KDFW was testng a ground control radar system. Remember they have three towers and none can see the whole airport ground system.We know from Tenerife and many more that visual ground control is too dangerous and unacceptable many places and many times.I bet there are a lot or real pilots who would love progressive taxi in the real world - even it fit was a small GPS type unit like cars have available "Turn right next taxiway"I really expect to see such an instrument in aircraft within a few years. Punch in the taxiways as the controller reads them off.The reality is that taxiway instructions, even as long and complicated as the ones in the original post are not that hard to follow.The pilot has the airport diagram in front of him when the instructions are read - and 99.9% of the time - it's "follow the aircraft in front of you to the terminal area."FS does not simulate company ramps - like everything around the terminal buildings at KDFW. Movement in that area is not ATC responsibility - it's the airline's job to move the aircraft without crashing into each other.Commerical pilots don't arrive at airports and not know what the ground layout is, or where the various named gates are located. Almost always the gate assignment is made/recommended by the airline and ATC is just directing the plane to the company ramp area.One thing the pilots who fly the Gulfstream and Challenger aircraft for my company do is the right seat pilot has a copy of the airport diagram with the intended parking position already marked.When ATC issues taxi instructions, she/he uses a hilighter to mark the route. Navigation on the ground is the right seater's job.That's almost always real world big airline procedure. Because only the left seat has a tiller, steering control for the nose wheel in larger aircraft.That's one of the hardest things about moving to captain in airlines. Learning how to drive on the ground, because you can't do it unless you are in the left seat.

[XWRed5 0]

It's like that in real life in some places too. People have already mentioned some of the big airports in the US, around Europe both LEMD and LEBL both give complex taxi instructions.Oh that we had the taxi charts to hand when they give taxi instructions, mostly we're passing through 80kts decelerating, looking for a turn off when we get that kind of transmission. Obviously at that point we have the final approach chart out. At LEBL in particular (if I'm non handling) I will always grab a bit of paper and pen to note down the rapid fire taxi instructions. The bonus when you are on the ground though is that you can just stop and clarify.LFPG, despite it's complexity, is quite easy; in fact, as they all speak French there, we find it easier to just go where we always go and give way to all Air France aircraft, changing frequencies as requested. They seem quite happy with that and I've yet to hit anyone or get lost. Of course, it's not always the most expeditious but by far the safest, the controllers will be directing all the Air France aircraft around you anyway - not that you really know because it's all done in French.Heathrow at night is the best, "Follow the greens". They have the "unrealistic" pink line ... of course it's not a pink line but an ever changing row of green lights. Taxi instructions are simply "Follow the greens, stand 123", if there's a red bar across your route, stop, nice and easy.Hope this helps,Ian

[Dirk98 354]

Thanks, very interesting. Can anyone please share his EHAM experiences, I'm looking at its ground charts and can't make out even simple taxi ways, like Alfa, Echo, Sierra etc.

[XWRed5 0]

Never had any problems at EHAM, all very nicely and intuitively laid out with professional ATC. A few frequency changes but once you've figured out which way round they want you to go it's all quite straight forward.Of course, it's a long long *long* way to taxi sometimes and they don't like to use the runway into wind but we'll live.Hope this helps,Ian

[bucifan 0]

The taxi instructions are what I really miss using Radar Contact 4. It just says taxi to the ramp, or Gate??, if you put in a specific gate #. But I would not want to give up the flying instructions given by RC4, and go back to FS9's ATC. I guess you can't have everything......but who knows, maybe someday!Rick

[Guest wji]

"Anyone else encountered a similarly complex taxi instruction?"Roger that . . . the ATC instructions are the same for everyone:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/172745.jpgTo simplify ATC (GND) taxi instructions, combine taxiways using CTRL+Select in AFCAD2