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Guest knasen86

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Guest Nealoc187

>Hi.>>in relation to my earlier comments on how do we know which SID>or STAR to use on a flight plan, I am still concerned and>confused.>>for example, if I use either FS Nav or Routefinder etc, they>say a BPK dep, but I don't know which BPK SID to select on the>FMC, as it lists about 7 of them, so, how do you know which>one to use guy's.>>The same goes for the arrival STAR.>>any help would be very much appreciated on this.I don't know how it is with other countries, but for the USA the difference is the transition for that arrival (or departure).For instance take a look at bradford five BDF5 arrival into chicago o'hare.http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0801/00166BRADFORD.PDFhttp://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0801/00166BRADFORD_C.PDFThere are 4 different transitions for that arrival - BAYLI intersection, FTZ vortac, IRK vortac, and STL vortac. All of those would be listed in an FMC and you would want to choose whichever was appropriate to your route of flight. They would be listed as BAYLI.BFD5, FTZ.BFD5, IRK.BFD5, and STL.BFD5.Is that what you were referring to?

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Dave, nobody really seems to know why. Over at http://forums.simflight.com/there is an FANavigator forum about half way down. Lots on it there but no real answer.JimCYWG

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You need to check the actual charts in both cases.The SID is determined by the departure runway you're using:BPK 6F - 27RBPK 6G - 27LBPK 6H - 23BPK 5J - 09RBPK 4K - 09LThe STAR is determined by the airway you're using as shown on the charts. For example if you're approaching Heathrow from the north on Airways L10 or N615 then you use Bovingdon STAR BNN 3A. If you're on A47 then you use BNN 1C. These remarks apply to the UK. I've no doubt that there are differences in other countries. Also, ATC can overide them at its discretion.

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Good question. In Europe, the departures and arrivals are associated with a runway. ATC controllers are more involved in assigning terminal procedures than their US counterparts. In the US, one requests the terminal procedure based on the direction of flight. In other words, it is part of the flight plan submitted for clearance. I'm sure there are advantages and disadvantages to either approach. I enjoy the variety which help more in the immersion. If what I stated above is incorrect, please jump in with the correct information so we can all learn. Regards,Dave Vega


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"In Europe, the departures and arrivals are associated with a runway."That's not quite right. In the UK STARS are associated with an airway. The airway being flown determines the STAR. UK STARS terminatate at a waypoint associated with a hold. Aircraft can approach any runway from that hold so the runway in use doesn't affect the choce of STAR. It's determined by the airway. Going back to my example, BNN 3A and BNN 1C terminate at the Bovingdon VOR BNN, as do BNN 1C and BNN 1D. Aircraft are normally radar vectored from the hold onto the centre line of the approach to the runway in use. There are published charts giving Initial Approches Procedures to do the same thing when radar vectoring isn't available.

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>Dave, nobody really seems to know why. Over at >>http://forums.simflight.com/>>there is an FANavigator forum about half way down. Lots on it>there but no real answer.>Jim>CYWGThat's disheartening, don't know what i'd do without it.dave

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>>but, how do you know which SID / STAR to use.>>for example, a flight from EGLL to EHAM just shows a BPK dep,>>so how do you know which BPK SID to use, as there are quite a>>few.>The SID is tied to the departure runway.>For example (in this case):>BPK4K is for 09L>BPK5J is for 09R>BPK6G is for 27L>BPK6F is for 27RBut how do you know which runway you will be allocated until the very last moment before departure? It will be determined by weather.Barry

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Runways are determined by ATC.Runways are rarely changed at the very last minute. When it's necessary it takes quite a time to deal with ariving aircraft and re-route them and to issue revised instructiondss to aircraft on the ground. Heathrow (EGLL) will continue to operate with upto a 5kt tailwinds in dry conditions before changing runway direction.When it does happen in the real world pilots will just have to change their flight plans.

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