The best long-haul A/C

[Guest mikealpha]

I'd also vote for the RFP 747-200. One of those rare Addons, that never get old. Can be easily merged with the beautiful POSKY 742 and yes, one really has something to do with feeding INS and the fuel management.PMDG 744 ? No way for me. The FS9 version is expensive enough and one has to buy the FSX version just to also get the best FS9 version. Quite ugly couple deal. They claim one doesn't need the latest FS9 version, but who doesn't need fps improvements, AP/FMC refinements and other stuff ?Mike

[Guest ha5mvo]

>Can ANYONE REEEAALLLY tell me that the PMDG is worth that kind of >money?' 100% I spend $200 in a few hours drinking in Central London >with my mates every Friday and Saturday. This Aircraft has been on my >drive for years and I'm still learning.I fail to see the connection. Let's compare apples to apples or else by that very same logic I could tell you about how I spent *thousands* on a two week vacation that's over now but this or that addon is still on my drive...Better consider MSFS or any other computer game. How much work goes into it, how much it requires in terms of coding, graphic rendering , artistic input etc. Now, Compare THIS to an FS addon and the prices one is asked to pay for either.On the other hand, as long as simmers keep "proudly supporting" overpriced addons, why on earth should their publishers even consider a more realistic pricing policy??

[FLEX1978 373]

My point a couple of hundred dollars for a almost infinite amount of enjoyment is worth it if you can afford it. I'm getting sick of people #### about addons being too expensive.. fair enough If I pay top dollar for a peice of crap I get angry... If it's good quality I'm happy. I have spent over a $1000 on a Real Level D sim I also pay over 100 uk pounds an hour on my PPL in the UK should I write to these people and complain. If your not happy dont buy it!A lot of people may disagree but I think these Top end companies are under charging and thats why we have to wait 3-4 years for a good quality aircraft to come along.. while these other companys release buggy software twice a year at a slightly reduced rate and everyone gets there credit cards out supporting this rubbish then complains when it doesn't do what it says on the tin. Rob

[Guest lgvpilot1]

I fully understand people questioning the price issue regarding the PMDG It is after all a lot of money.The same could be said about AES and the amount of credits you have to buy,but we buy them all the same to add to the realismPersonally Flightsimming has become a real hobby for me over the last twelve months and so I dont mind paying the prices involved for something that takes up 50% of my spare time .But if i were only to fly a few hours a month then i would most likley be looking at the RFP Posky merge for a way to enjoy 'long Haul' or as others have mentioned the IFly 747.One can spend hundreds or nothing as long as the product is good the enjoyment is there to be had Just me waffling!!Mark

[Guest ha5mvo]

The issue isn't really the vendors. They are out there to increase their profits and indeed why shouldn't they?The issue is the so-called community that's eager to purchase addons regardless of their price and yes, many times quality.By supporting an addon you are not only voting for its quality but also for its price. Don't be surprised if the next high-end addon will set yet another record in terms of its price. Hey, after all, what's another weekends-worth of pints with the lads...It's also a question of where you want to see this "industry" going. As long as people pay ridiculous prices for a COMPUTER GAME EXPANSION PACK, what will stop those prices from becoming even more ridiculous?

[Guest dpiedrahita]

Well I'm happy to see I've sparked some thoughtful debate!Let me address a few points:1. Wilco seems to be off the table. Not being able to predict arrival times would be an annoyance for me and I think considering it seems to be marketed as a more advanced aircraft those features should be included. Thanks to riprest for getting that straight. Where is D Scobie when you need him? Doesn't he know about this? 2. I got real excited about the iFly when I first found out about it and really liked the panel, but couldn't get the systems to work right (mainly trim) and got fed up and wrote it off. I also think the model is pretty bad. I'd consider merging it with the Posky 744 -I'm assuming that's a well-regarded model since pretty much all of their stuff seems to be- but if the panel doesn't work what's the point?3. I don't necessarily argue that there may be some differences in the Level-D vs. PMDG, but I don't know that to me the little extras that may be present in PMDG are worth the large difference in price. The FSX version seems to be a better value seeing as it's a more current platform and a completely rebuilt model, but I can't see going to FSX yet because I'm too spoiled by the add-on sceneries available for FS9. I had FSX for a while but and liked it but preferred to wait for better availability of add-on sceneries.4. I don't complain about the price after I buy something. If I think it's too much I won't buy it in the first place and that is all I can do to help control pricing. I think a lot of you guys have brought up nice points about pricing and people's buying habits, but in the end we can only control what we do no matter how stupid or disagreeable what other people do may seem.5. The way I stand I think it's either convince myself the PMDG is worth the price or stick with what I've got since none of the other options seem that good.

[FLEX1978 373]

'As long as people pay ridiculous prices for a COMPUTER GAME EXPANSION PACK' ha5mvo If it bugs you that much why dont you pack your XBOX away and find yourself another hobby?I am under no illusion that any of these 'expansion packs' will teach me to hand fly a real heavy aircraft into KLAX in a 25 knot crosswind. However if you can tell me where I can get my hands on a FULL systems simulation of a 747-400 Including full tutorials, Abnormal procedures,full system modeling and documentation, perfomance tables etc etc. for under $100 Pleases point me in the right direction... till then I will stick with what I have.OP did you try the RFP 747? That aircraft is part of my top addons the VC is very old but the systems are up there with the best, and the steep learning curve will stop you from getting bored... best of all the price is very good :)Cheers

[Guest ha5mvo]

Rob,I have no argument with you. If you're happy to pay those prices and feel that it's rain that's falling then so be it.Btw, if you are into systems modelling try the PS1.3 - granted it does not have all the graphic hoo-ha but it's on an entirely different level, just to put things in perspective..In the meantime, I'll keep supporting freeware developers - it's them, not the vendors who are at the core of this hobby.

[Guest dpiedrahita]

What about the PSS Airbus series? I thought that was supposed to be pretty good and seems to have a good write-up here on Avsim from what I recall. JustFlight has it for $50, but it's got to be available from some other places for cheaper than that. The package is ancient...

[Guest dpiedrahita]

I'm going to go ahead and reply to myself here...I was just going back and looking at the Wilco review here on AVSIM. I was reading about the MCDU, which I thought would be great until I got to this quite:"But how real is real or

[Max Kraus 338]

Look I like them both (LDS and PMDG) and bought them a) before PMDG converted to Euro billing and :( in 2005, well before the US Dollar went south. For true romantic long haul - PMDG all the way IMHO.

[Guest weeniemcween]

Level d has significantly better frame rates in virtual cockpit, and i think that has been overlooked here. If you're a 2d flyer then i say it's especially a matter of aircraft preference. Both are excellent as far as systems go. The PMDG 747 has a beautiful overhead but pointless virtual upper cabin, in terms of pilot operation. It is unfortunate that fsx (it was brought up) is crippling to airliners. At the same time, pmdg's gauge technology is not sufficiently innovative at this point to justify their prices for old gdi tehcnology, which helps suck up frames. It is clear that people with the latest processors get laughable performance, in part due to the inherent demands of fsx and in part due to gdi. Level d is not innovate in gauge programming either now, but at least they don't ask much for the upgrade. Here's looking forward to airsimmer generally and the pmdg md11 for fs9 only, despite their poor business model.

[Guest dpiedrahita]

So if I go to PMDG's website and get the FS9 version, do I get this bonus update that was released when the FSX version came out or not? I had a rough week at work and have some cash burning a hole in my pocket. I feel like treating myself to something nice...like a new aircraft.I also remembered where I got my range information for the RFP. When you select the aircraft in FS9 the information that displays says a range of 5150nm. Airliners.net says 6900. That's a big difference, not like an engine variant difference. Anyone know the actual in-game range?

[Guest]

>I fully understand people questioning the price issue>regarding the PMDG It is after all a lot of money.>The same could be said about AES and the amount of credits you>have to buy,but we buy them all the same to add to the>realism>Personally Flightsimming has become a real hobby for me over>the last twelve months and so I dont mind paying the prices>involved for something that takes up 50% of my spare time .>But if i were only to fly a few hours a month then i would>most likley be looking at the RFP Posky merge for a way to>enjoy 'long Haul' or as others have mentioned the IFly 747.>One can spend hundreds or nothing as long as the product is>good the enjoyment is there to be had >Just me waffling!!>>MarkNo. PMDG raised their prices and then went to euros to raise it even more. Thats what people have an issue with, not their ORIGINAL prices.But thanks for playingOther than that... certainly one of the best planes made for the sim, if you are into the 747 of course. i am not so i dont enjoy it but thats a matter of taste. from visuals to accuracy to function, you cant go wrong :)

[Krister 51]

I have about the same fps in LevelD as in PMDG 747 in VC (using fs9). Considering that the 747 has 3D buttons and dials all the way while the LevelD cockpit is basically flat, I think the 747 has a far more impressive cockpit. I do have to say that with the 26" monitor I use now in 1920x1200 mode, the updating of all the buttons and dials in 747 does causes a bit of strain for the eyes. It works wonderfully with Realair Spitfire though!