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Guest earendil1234

Vor Navigation In Pmdg 744

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Hi,I would like to know about VOR Navigation in PMDG 744: that is flying certain radial TO and FROM a station.I understand from the manual that I could use the FMC for the radial navigation by inserting the station identifier and the intercept course at the LEGS page. However, this can only be done when you are intercepting the radial INBOUND/TO the station. How about if I want to intercept the radial OUTBOUND/FROM the station? There is no NAV hold in the MCP and I feel that the NAVRAD page in FMC becomes quite useless. Is this for real? Or PMDG is not simulating the NAV hold?I was thinking of creating virtual waypoints as a turn around to this problem that is I will create a waypoint on R-yyy from xxx station at zz.z DME from the station (i.e. xxxyyy/zz.z). However after reaching this point will it hold the radial? No. After it reaches, route discontinuity. So, I should create another way point, R-yyy from xxx station at aa.a where aa.a is greater than zz.z. But again after it reaches and I still need to maintain the radial, I will need to create another waypoint. I dont think that this is an elegant way to do it. There should be away to hold a radial. LOC button apparently doesn't work because it is only coupled to the ILS frequency.This is important when I have to fly a non-precision approach. I found flying a non-precision approach on this aircraft is simply frustrating.Can somebody suggest?Thanks!Adhika

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Why don't you simply make use of tremendous wealth of information available on this forum and use the advanced search button. The issue of VOR navigation in 747, non precision approaches had been discussed on these pages ad nauseam.

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Why don't you simply make use of tremendous wealth of information available on this forum and use the advanced search button. The issue of VOR navigation in 747, non precision approaches had been discussed on these pages ad nauseam.
Hi Michal,I have tried to find the topic but I could not find any. I have spent the whole day looking for this and apparently there is no answer. If it has been discussed ad nauseam, I believe I could locate it easily but it turned out to be on the contrary. I even could not find it using the keyword "VOR".If you don't mind, since perhaps like you have mentioned it has been discussed ad nauseam, could you at least tell me what keyword and in which forum I should try to find the discussion?Thanks.

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Hi Adhika,Don't get too excited with those kind of replies. Unfortunately they become an habit here at this very forum. This type of reply certainly does not fall into the category of knowledge sharing.Here are a few links which you may find interesting although they only partially address your question. I found these links by typing the words 'radial' and 'intercept':http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtop...p=0entry0http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtop...p=0entry0http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtop...p=0entry0http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtop...p=0entry0Hope you can use these as a start for educating yourself.

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Since you are flying an approach, why not use the approach provided in the sidstar procedures file? I'm not sure all published approaches in the world are included but most are so it is worth a look. Then you simply set up the nav to monitor the approach and leave the To/From issues to the computer. Just a suggestion.

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Adhika,Sorry, I can see now that since we have a different forum system the search doesn't seem to work as before. If I can't find even "FSX" on this forum - something tells me that there is a major issue with the search engine or perhaps we are not using it correctly. I will try to investigate on my side what's going on. In the old forum if you searched under "747 AND VOR" you would get many, many hits. I now tried two different browsers to no avail, have no clue what's going on with the current search.Just for your info, 747 is not a 737, 747 can't track VOR signal, it can only track VOR radial through LNAV. You can't use LOC as a VOR receiver.

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Michal, thank you for your understanding. I would not have simply posted this question if I could use the search facility.Anyway,1. @Michal and Downsc: I understand that it could not track a VOR signal however sometimes I was given a command by the ATC (online in IVAO) to track radial xxx outbound yyy. And in a B744, I have no clue how to do it on autopilot elegantly. Any of you could suggest?2. Regarding the published approach procedure, I found out that in some cases, although the fixes are there, but the aircraft doesn't fly as published. For example:BPN_ILS.jpgThis is an ILS procedure on RW25 in WALL that required a left procedure turn to get to the initial approach fix. However when this is entered into the FMC, what the aircraft did is at BPN R087 D2.3, it turn to the right to join the intermediate approach fix BPN R067 D2.3 . I haven't tried this out but I think one way that I could force the aircraft to follow this procedure is by creating an intermediate fix between R087 D6.6 and R067 D6.6 say R077 D8. What do you think?Adhika

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Hi Adhika, If I understand correctly you are referring to the fly-by issue of Boeing FMC's. The aircraft will actually turn before the waypoint. To solve this, well to overcome it since it isn't a problem, I would suggest flying these kinds of approaches in HDG mode. Or alternatively you could insert a custom waypoint as you mentioned.

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To be close to the real world of flying I would fly in the HDG mode, this is much simpler and requires much less "head down" than inserting new waypoints.At this phase of the ILS approach you would normally be long past the LNAV flying, normally you would be vectored anyway.

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I see. Well, I have just tried the method of creating virtual waypoint.Well, apparently it doesn't really work. This is my trial: it's a HOSTY1A departure from WADD RW27.wadd_27_dep.jpgAfter takeoff, turn left to BLI then join BLI R012 (W46).I used AIRAC 0812 and select the departure procedure from the AIRAC and after inputting the INIT PERF page, it gives me this:initial.jpgHowever, when I flew it, what happened is that it turned right instead of following the magenta line to turn left. Here is the screenshot:WADD_BADA1D.jpgSo, I created two waypoints, namely: BLI R266 D5 and BLI R192 D5 so that it will at least try to turn to the left and then join the R012. However, it gives me this funny path:fmc_2.jpgI didn't fly this one, but I was confused with the FMC's calculated path.Any clue about this one?Otherwise perhaps we can only fly in heading mode, after takeoff pull out the LEGS page and proceed direct to BLI intercepting the course 012. Adhika

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Any clue about this one?
Yeah, this won't work because in order to make it work right you really need ARINC424 data standard supported by the FMC - ARINC424 does allow for such complicated curved paths with no need to insert artificial waypoints. You can search this forum for ARINC424 and get information on the subject. You can even find this topic discussed on Wikipedia and find good info through google. Apparently ARINC424 will be coming to PMDG's 737NG (FSX) but right you are resigned to flying it in HDG mode.

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Hi Michael,Thank you for your info on ARINC424. I have hit the search button and I could locate the topic now. Haha.Anyway, the HDG select mode works fine. I turn left manually and then pull up LEGS page to enter BLI R192. Well, a bit of work but at least it works. I don't know when my LNAV will fail me, so, I take it that I have to complement the navigation with HDG select instead of the LNAV alone when I am executing this kind of complicated turning maneuver, e.g. procedure turn?I have asked two of my friends who use PMDG 744 as well to give it a go on this SID and all of theirs turn to the left as planned. So, is the problem mine alone? If it is, what might be wrong?I start to feel that this Boeing 747-400 is not flexible at all compared to Boeing 737 series. Once the AP takes control, I could not decouple the roll mode and the pitch mode (that is to say leave the pitch attitude managed by the AP while I take control over directional control using the yoke). How do the rest of you feel?PS. I have just give my 737NG a go with the same SID and runway etc, and 737NG's LNAV could track the SID very well. I feel it's so strange.

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Adhika,The INTC CRS functionality in the FMC is able to do anything in LNAV that a VOR tracking mode would do.If you want to track outbound from a station, simply create a custom waypoint way far out along the radial, example - I want to fly the LAX R-090 outbound. Make a custom Place-Bearing Distance waypoint by typing LAX090/100 for instance into the LEGS page - when you enter it in you'll see a prompt at LSK 6R that says "INTC CRS" this is where you can tell the FMC exactly what course you want to fly to that waypoint - you can put in anything here, but putting in 090 will ensure that LNAV flies that one. All you have to do is point the plane at the magenta line using HDG SEL (roughly at a 30 degree intercept angle is preferable) and arm LNAV. It will capture and track your VOR course, which you can monitor using the RMI or the ND VOR page to make sure the FMC is accurately doing it.---Michael, let's tone it down on the stern replies ok? He's just asking for help...

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Ryan,Thanks a lot for your reply. I guess now I figure out how to do it. Actually I can type any distance so long it's big enough, right?Well, apart from this, I would like to ask also about lateral navigation using the yoke. Is it impossible after engaging the roll mode to just disengage the roll mode (so I can use my yoke to bank instead of using the HDG select, it's faster and more agile, I think) but continue on the pitch mode only (so that I do not need to worry about the altitude)?Thanks.Adhika

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