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Odd thing with the self-installing C-172 from Real Air

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Hi, Rob 70% don't read the readme files and tons of post should never posted in this forum, for all NON reading user. Problem on their Os System, Missing Vb Files, missing System files, Direct X problem files anomalies, never updated OS system, old system files corrupted, Missing/corrupted fs2002 files, are simply not related to any freeware/commercial problem or anything like that's. Tested in Win98,Me, 2000 and XP. All works fine.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs


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Chris Willis

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Okay, I've had a bit to look through the (very few) lines of Visual Basic code I wrote to create this installer, and here is my final take on the subject:1. There is no way that the installer deleted files from your default C172 folder, as there is but a single delete command in the entire program, and that is to delete my own installer. If your default C172 installation got muddled, disturbed or destroyed, it is not the fault of the installer.2. Likewise, there is no way the installer overwrote any files in your default 172 installation unless you had previously renamed the default folder "RealAir C172SP". If you did indeed do that, you didn't follow the readme, and you're on your own.3. There is no error handler or message box in the entire installer program that ever implies that you should reinstall FS2002. Message boxes stating such things must be written into a program and there are only two message boxes in the installer -- one that indicates that a certain file could not be found and therefore couldn't be copied from one place to another, and one that indicates a successful installation. Any message you got stating that you needed to reinstall FS2002 is not my work, and I take no responsibility for it.4. As with message boxes, if I wanted to write something to the system registry (such as a path for uninstallation) I would have to have done so, this isn't automatic. The installer uses basic Windows copying and directory creation routines only, and writes nothing at all to the registry. If you find a reference to the installer in your registry, it's the normal result of running a program -- any program -- on your system.So after looking at the code, and considering the fact that there are now in excess of 4000 downloads with nobody else reporting such problems, I'm forced to conclude that there was something very unusual and very non-standard with your install. In the interest of helping you get flying, I offer the following method for doing a manual install:A. Unzip the installer files to a temporary directory of your choosing outside of FS2002, keeping the directory structure intact.B. Make a copy of your default C172 folder in FS2002/aircraft and rename it as you please.C. Copy all the files we've provided you in the download into the appropriate place in the new aircraft folder you just created.Doing the above will result in a nicely flyable Kangan Batman TAFE c172 with Rob's air file. Sorry, but that's all I have to offer, and all I've got to say on the subject.thanks,


Bill Womack

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Visit my FS Blog or follow me on Twitter (username: bwomack).

Intel i7-950 OC to 4GHz | 6GB DDR3 RAM | Nvidia GTX460 1gb | 2x 120GB SSDs | Windows 7 Ultimate 64Bit

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Guest Steve K

I just wanted to let everyone know that's involved with this project how much your work is appreciated. I used the installer and I've got a perfectly flyable Cessna 172 as a result. The only anomaly I've found was some invisible interior back seat shots (center and left rear) but it definitely doesn't keep me from enjoying it. Any help fixing that would be appreciated.Again, great job guys and thank you!

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> The only anomaly I've found was some invisible >interior back seat shots (center and left rear) but it >definitely doesn't keep me from enjoying it. Any help fixing >that would be appreciated. The default Cessna 172, from which this version is created, is the same. If you move the eye-point to the same position as it is in the RealAir (which gives a better panel VC view), you'll get the same missing seats, fuselage,etc.L.Adamson

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Guest

>Hi, > Rob 70% don't read the readme files and tons of post >should never posted in this forum, for all NON reading user. >Problem on their Os System, Missing Vb Files, missing System >files, Direct X problem files anomalies, never updated OS >system, old system files corrupted, Missing/corrupted fs2002 >files, are simply not related to any freeware/commercial >problem or anything like that's. But a manual install would not create any of those problems. Or are you suggesting that it is also the job if the installer to highlight inadequacies in the system of the user? A little presumptuous of you, Chris. And impossible to reconcile with an error message that advises the user to reinstall the entire simulator when only a few files are affected.ChasW

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Guest

>Okay, I've had a bit to look through the (very few) lines of >Visual Basic code I wrote to create this installer, and here >is my final take on the subject: >>1. There is no way that the installer deleted files from >your default C172 folder, as there is but a single delete >command in the entire program, and that is to delete my own >installer. If your default C172 installation got muddled, >disturbed or destroyed, it is not the fault of the >installer. Yes, it is. Without the need to run the autoinstaller there would have been no problem. Cause and effect Bill. I accept that my non-standard installation may be what triggered the error, but the auto-installer should recognise a non-standard installation and advise a manual install, not simply throw up a `error - 53` message meaningless to the majority. Having advised a manual install and provided the tutorial it rather negates the point of including the installer in the first place!>2. Likewise, there is no way the installer overwrote any >files in your default 172 installation unless you had >previously renamed the default folder "RealAir C172SP". If >you did indeed do that, you didn't follow the readme, and >you're on your own. After running the installer, then getting the `error 53` message I attempted to run FS2002. WITH NO OTHER CHANGES TO THE SIM, THE OS OR MY FILES, the error message generated by FS2002 was "Default aircraft not found - Cessna 172. Reinstall Flight Simulator" and the sim would no longer boot. That Bill, is the fault of the installer, not the operator. In failing to install it created a problem with FS not of my making, and I object to the accusation that I didn't follow the readme (which I did, to the letter). And yes, I know I am `on my own`, I fixed it before coming here by the simple expedient of installing the thing manually. Please don't take your frustrations out on me, or else I will highlight the inadequacies in the installation routine supplied by Real Air Simulations.Here are the installation_instructions.txt file, printed in full: The zip file does NOT prompt the user to read this file after unzipping, but given its title I read it anyway. Shrewd eh?"To install the RealAir Simulations C172, unzip this archive to a temporary folder (NOT the root FS2002 folder), and click "Install_172.exe". That's it!After installation you will see the flying guide appear in html format. After closing this, the readmenow! and Realair_c172. html files will be placed in your RealAir_C172SP folder so you can refer to them any time after installation.PLEASE READ THE SECTION REQUIRING YOU TO SET THE REALISM SLIDER TO MAX WHEN FLYING THIS AIRCRAFT.The RealAir Team"So you see, it does not mention the need for a `standard` install of the default C172 before clicking the auto-installer, nor does it provide instructions for a manual installation. You might know what the installer is going to do, copying files and creating a folder, but how the heck are we supposed to know? A serious failing - IN THE INSTALLER. Neither does the ReadMeNow.html file which only pops up after installation and which I also happened to read before clicking the installer, such is my (now utterly justified) mistrust of such devices. To put it simply, there was no way of knowing I was going to have a problem before clicking that .exe file, and no way back once I had done so. Whose fault is that?>3. There is no error handler or message box in the entire >installer program that ever implies that you should >reinstall FS2002. Message boxes stating such things must be >written into a program and there are only two message boxes >in the installer -- one that indicates that a certain file >could not be found and therefore couldn't be copied from one >place to another, and one that indicates a successful >installation. Any message you got stating that you needed to >reinstall FS2002 is not my work, and I take no >responsibility for it. Your installer does not generate the message, and I never said it did. FS generates the message and that is the fault of the installer, however you want to look at it. If the installer is not `intelligent` enough to interface with the error message generating system within FS2002 it is not good enough. Period. A full reinstall of the sim is not required. FACT.>4. As with message boxes, if I wanted to write something to >the system registry (such as a path for uninstallation) I >would have to have done so, this isn't automatic. The >installer uses basic Windows copying and directory creation >routines only, and writes nothing at all to the registry. If >you find a reference to the installer in your registry, it's >the normal result of running a program -- any program -- on >your system. >>So after looking at the code, and considering the fact that >there are now in excess of 4000 downloads with nobody else >reporting such problems, I'm forced to conclude that there >was something very unusual and very non-standard with your >install. In the interest of helping you get flying, I offer >the following method for doing a manual install: >>A. Unzip the installer files to a temporary directory of >your choosing outside of FS2002, keeping the directory >structure intact. >>B. Make a copy of your default C172 folder in >FS2002/aircraft and rename it as you please. >>C. Copy all the files we've provided you in the download >into the appropriate place in the new aircraft folder you >just created. >>Doing the above will result in a nicely flyable Kangan >Batman TAFE c172 with Rob's air file. Sorry, but that's all >I have to offer, and all I've got to say on the subject. >Check thread 19. I already did that. I thought the purpose of the continuation of this thread was to assist you in tracing the error in the installer to help others who might suffer from the same difficulty and prevent the necessity of reinstalling the entire sim for half an additional add-on aircraft? I see no point in continuing this conversation. To all simmers, I advise a manual install using the either of the methods offered in this thread. You WILL have fewer problems and if you do, they WILL be traceable and reversible.ChasW

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Guest jaapverduijn

Being a major dimwit in general and especially when it comes to manual installing, I simply ran the auto-installer, and experienced no problem at all. It duly and correctly did what an auto-installer is supposed to do: it auto-installed. Praise the Lord and thank Him profusely for auto-installers!I have flown the new Realair C172 for quite a lot of hours now, and I'm very happy with it. It's pretty close to how I remember the Cessna 172 to have been in real life, nearly 30 years ago before neurological problems began keeping me away firstly from aircraft cockpits, then automobile driver seats, and right now even bicycle saddles. Sometimes it helps to have slowly deteriorated into relative dimness, thickness and stupidity (grin!): simple things like auto-installers tend to work, on account of me not having been clever enough to have changed anything in my default aircraft. Auto-installers are a very helpful tool not only for the partly brain-dead likes of me, but also for the average Tom, Dick, Jane or Harry. On the other hand, those who are clever enough to have changed things in their default aircraft, might easily be expected to be also clever enough to sort out any problems that might be the consequence of these changes. Might they not?Jaap Verduijn.

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Guest seev_39

HiThe RealAir C172SP is great. I flew it now for nearly two hours and the looks and feelings are much better than the default C172. Congratulations and many thanks for a 100% O.K. job.I had the problem with error #53 too, but solved it after a night's sleep and getting into this forum (the sleep probably helped less). My advise, why don't you correct the text file to give both options; auto install and manual installation, for those (like myself) who made changes to their default C172. I even don't remember when and why I changed the good old Microsoft aircraft. Shame on me.Seev

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Guest

Experts in these forums constantly inform and educate people so that they may take charge of their FS installation and do things for themselves.An auto installer that does not permit installation anywhere other than the FS2002 folder is an evasion of that principle and flies in the face of convention. An installer that cannot deal with a non-standard installation of the files that it is about to modify, copy or whatever is flawed and unnecessary.We have at least established a manual method. But look at all this time utterly wasted. So let's just say it was all my fault and move on. I don't care. I got it up and running despite the installer trying to corrupt my entire Flight Sim folder, no thanks to the developer support or the manuals. And the developer is disinterested in resolving the issue for other simmers. That's their lookout.I will be thinking most carefully before investing in any paid-for Real Air Simulation product that contains such an autocratic and inflexible installation routine. No matter how good the files it installs may be. I will not be going through all this again. Especially not the implied insults from developers who want to blame others for their own problems.ChasW

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Guest Tony_A

>Experts in these forums constantly inform and educate people >so that they may take charge of their FS installation and do >things for themselves. I don't consider myself an expert in anything but I have been mucking around with M$ flightsims since the commodore 64 days. I don't think davido53's original question had anything to do with the installer and my suggestion above may help to educate him. Hope so anyway. >An auto installer that does not permit installation anywhere >other than the FS2002 folder is an evasion of that principle >and flies in the face of convention. An installer that >cannot deal with a non-standard installation of the files >that it is about to modify, copy or whatever is flawed and >unnecessary. Don't agree Chas. The majority of flight simmers would probably have the "stock standard" aircraft and from the number of downloads and apparently few problems the auto installer seems to work pretty well OK in the majority of cases. If you take your "stock standard" 6 cylinder motor car and add twin carbys, extractors a worked cam shaft and shaved head to your "average" mechanic you can't expect the poor sod to be able to tune it. >We have at least established a manual method. But look at >all this time utterly wasted.Don't agree Chas. Nothing wrong with progress and to get progress we have to sort out the teething problems which this thread will help to do. >So let's just say it was all my faultCertainly don't agree - nothing gets solved throwing blame about. and move on.Yep, let's do that.>I don't >care. I got it up and running despite the installer trying >to corrupt my entire Flight Sim folder, no thanks to the >developer support or the manuals. And the developer is >disinterested in resolving the issue for other simmers. >That's their lookout. From what I read in this thread, the developers are taking all of this on board and I would expect that their future release will reflect this. >I will be thinking most carefully before investing in any >paid-for Real Air Simulation product that contains such an >autocratic and inflexible installation routine. No matter >how good the files it installs may be. I will not be going >through all this again. Especially not the implied insults >from developers who want to blame others for their own >problems. >>>ChasW You are obviously very experienced with MSFS so can you inform and educate davido53 on what your opinion is of his problem. Tony

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Guest

Chas, I think you have taken this quite far enough. Now if you would kindly do as you have already said in another post and move on, it would be much appreciated.

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Guest

Chas,>>it is not the fault of the installer. (Bill W.)>>Yes, it is. Without the need to run the autoinstaller there would have been no problem. (Chas S.)So, can I just try and get your logic correct here? if I tried to drive my Ford Falcon around a corner signposted for 50 at 120 and ran into a telegraph pole, it would not be my fault, but it would be Ford's for selling me the car? Is that correct?Chas, you appear to be far more interested in attacking people who try to help you, rather than figuring out what the problem is. Bill's post was extremely patient in my opinion, considering how aggressive your previous posts have been. Yet when he tries to point out the possible solutions, you go on the offensive and blame everyone but yourself. Software is never foolproof, and I'm sure it never will be.Fact: over 5000 downloads so far on Avsim alone, and only a handful of installer issues. This is to be expected. But you just won't let it go without a fight. If you'd been more civil we may have had some degree of motivation for helping you out, but that motivation has all but dried up now, at least from where I'm sitting.So you don't like auto-installers -- sue us!Sean Moloney

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Guest SoarPics

Hi Sean,The best thing about this thread... now you know who you DON'T want as a customer.Regards,

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Hey guys I had nill problems with this installer. Simply the best 172sp ever made bar none! Now I have to work on a panel for this incredible aircraft....Best Wishes, Randy J. Smith[h5]San Jose Ca[/h5][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3]AMD XP 2100 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG |WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"

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Guest

Thanks Sean, as requested by Scott I had given up on this thread and gone and done some further work and discovered what the problem was with the installer. That little petulant outburst certainly helps me decide whether to share or not. And confirms that it's not only simmers who should have their manners checked by moderators. Perhaps this thread could be locked now?I do hope the `handful` of simmers who have experienced similar problems get them sorted out for themselves, because I don't think that your attitude is going to help much. ChasW

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