E8600 Or Q9650

[betelgeuse 41]

I am trying to finalise a system for FSX and FS9 but am not sure which CPU to use: E8600 LGA775 'Wolfdale' " with E0 Stepping or Q9650 with E0 Stepping. The first is half the price of the second in UK. I will probably not o/c initially but I would like to have the option. Apart from FS I run a LAN in my home, part wi-fi. I also have a large home photo collection so I like a top performing graphics card for stills and home videos. Depending on all this which mobo do you suggest? I guess X48 type, and which chipset? DDR3? GTX260 Core 216 planned. Do I need to plan for Crossfire/SLI? If cash allows I will probably buy a new 24 inch LCD. OS to be Vista 64. Lots of questions, sorry! John

[Guest harleyman52]

I am trying to finalise a system for FSX and FS9 but am not sure which CPU to use: E8600 LGA775 'Wolfdale' " with E0 Stepping or Q9650 with E0 Stepping. The first is half the price of the second in UK. I will probably not o/c initially but I would like to have the option. Apart from FS I run a LAN in my home, part wi-fi. I also have a large home photo collection so I like a top performing graphics card for stills and home videos. Depending on all this which mobo do you suggest? I guess X48 type, and which chipset? DDR3? GTX260 Core 216 planned. Do I need to plan for Crossfire/SLI? If cash allows I will probably buy a new 24 inch LCD. OS to be Vista 64. Lots of questions, sorry! John

FSX and SP 1 will use quad cores...BUTI use the E8600 and an X48 Gigabyte mobo with an 4870X2 card and life is great.............. Plus DDR2 mem now,but the GA-X48-DQ6 775 X48 will use DDR3 Mem if you want....Here is my build and I lock at 35 and have no drops at all anywhere.....Case: Thermaltake VH8000BWS BK Power: ThermalTake W0178RU 850W RT SLI EditionMoBo: GIGABYTE GA-X48-DQ6 775 X48CPU: INTEL|C2D E8600 3.33G 775 6MCPU Cooler: Artic Pro 7GPU: VISIONTEK Radion 900250 HD4870X2 2GMem: OCZ 2X2 @ 1066 HD1: 150 Gig Raptor @ 10,000HD2: 300G VelociRaptor @ 10,000 OS: XP Pro SP 3

[Sharrow 0]

It becomes quiet tough to determine which CPU is ultimately better for FSX when comparing the high end dual and quad CPU's, especially so if you are not planning to overclock. With the ever present risk of staring a minor battle on the forum I will say that in this case the Q9650 is the better bet, especially so when looking more long term. Both can be overclocked and the E8600 will go higher more easily (as most dual cores do when compared to quads) but the differences become pretty slim. Out of all the non-extreme quad cores the Q9650 overclocks significantly better than any other quad core - hence its premium at the till. And it's a premium well worth paying too.If you rather stick with 4GB of some ultra low latency DDR2 this will save you a decent bunch of cash which can go towards the Q9650. DDR3 does not bring much to the table yet (other than a high price of course). This choice will obviously affect which motherboard you can use. Do not get a motherboard which supports both DDR2 and DDR3, pick one or the other.I take it that you have both considered and rejected going with the new Core i7/X58? May be more expensive to buy now but will last you a lot longer into the future...For FSX you do not need to plan for SLI or Crossfire as neither has any real benefits unless you are running a 30' screen. Be aware that all pre X58 Intel chipsets only support two ATI cards in crossfire - there is no SLI support. The GTX260 Core 216 is a great choice for your 24" screen.Hope this helps.Konrad

[betelgeuse 41]

Thanks, Konrad. I'd more or less decided against i7/X58 because from what I've read, the i7 doesn't add much in FSX, bang for buck-wise. Every 1% gain costs a lot more near the top. If you can persuade me that i7 really delivers worthwhile extra performance then I could be tempted. I am not sure why you think it offers better future-proofing - FS11?I fly all sorts with complex addon sceneries and aircraft. I run dual monitors with WideFS, ActiveSky and Radio Contact. I also run FSInn for VATSIM, and have a complex AI route network using Aardvark, PAI, EvolveAI and other AI planes/routes from WorldAI,and more. I tweak FDEs in my spare time :( At the moment my AMD64 2.4 GHz SanDiego with 1 GB DDR and 7800GTX system copes remarkably well provided I watch the sliders - midpoint mostly. So whatever choice I make I will see a big improvement in picture quality and frame rates. So is it to be i7, Q9650 or E8600?

[Sharrow 0]

I am personally in no position to try and convince you to go with i7 as I have no experience using it. There is a thread started here a week or so back by Nick N specifically about the i7 and FSX which is definitely the place to start.Better future proofing from Core i7? 6GB of triple channel low voltage DDR3 RAM, new on chip memory controller, hyperthreading with 8 cores... these are just the more obvious ones. I am sure that once FS11 arrives the Core i7 will be even more capable relative to the current Quads.Given all you mention you do with FSX (way more than me!) I am even more inclined to recommend the Q9650 quad core. You can assign affinity to core 4 (for example) for some of the software you run alongside FSX, keeping them well away from all the action on cores 1 & 2...Lastly, it's human nature I guess but it kinda sucks spending so much cash (not on i7) and then still not having what can be called latest generation hardware. You will be left wandering for a long time to come how much better that Core i7 rig may (or may not) have been... just my personal opinion and life experience.

[betelgeuse 41]

I read that thread started by Nick_N. It focuses on o/clocking the i7. Sadly, at the moment, o/clocking is beyond me. Memory speeds, latencies and FSB settings make my eyes glaze over. Do I need to know all that to build a system which will allow me to run FSX and FS9 well? I can adjust the BIOS if someone tells me the best settings for a particular combination of mobo, CPU and DDR3. But I cannot work all that out for myself - I haven't the background or the knowledge. I want advice on choosing components which will work well together to deliver significantly improved performance over what I have at the moment. The British pound has disappeared down the toilet so more than ever I want bang for buck! Will the i7 give it me? Thanks again, and apologies if I have missed something obvious. John

[Guest djt01]

I want advice on choosing components which will work well together to deliver significantly improved performance over what I have at the moment. The British pound has disappeared down the toilet so more than ever I want bang for buck! Will the i7 give it me?

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[Guest bekfreak]

I

[betelgeuse 41]

So what about this for an i7 system for both FS9 in XP and FSX in Vista 64?Intel Core i7 920 2.66Ghz (Nehalem) (Socket LGA1366) - Retail versionAsus P6T Deluxe Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 or should I go for the "OC Palm Edition" of this mobo?Corsair 6GB DDR3 Dominator PC3-12800C8 1600MHz (3x2GB) Triple Channel DDR3 CAS: 8-8-8-24 values at 1600MHz Intel X58 or the cheaper version with higher latencies?:Corsair 6GB DDR3 XMS3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz (3x2GB) Triple Channel DDR3 CAS: 9-9-9-24 at 1600MHz Intel X58.GTX260 Core 216LG GGW-H20L Blu-Ray Rewriter & HD-DVD ROM Serial ATA Drive - RetailAsus Xonar D2X 7.1 PCI-Express Sound Card (Vista Gaming with DirectSound & EAX support)Akasa 'Eclipse' 62 caseWestern Digital Caviar Black 500GB SATA-II 32MB Cache 7200 - OEM (2 of these - one for FS9/XP, the other for FSX/Vista 64 Ultimate)Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme CPU Cooler with bolt on for LGA1366 socketI read that the i7920 can be o/c as easily as the i7940 and it is about half the price in UK. Similarly is there much point in going for the lower latency DDR3? Thanks for all the advice. I'm almost there!John

[Guest djt01]

Asus P6T Deluxe Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 or should I go for the "OC Palm Edition" of this mobo?John

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[tfm 169]

So what about this for an i7 system for both FS9 in XP and FSX in Vista 64?Intel Core i7 920 2.66Ghz (Nehalem) (Socket LGA1366) - Retail versionAsus P6T Deluxe Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 or should I go for the "OC Palm Edition" of this mobo?Corsair 6GB DDR3 Dominator PC3-12800C8 1600MHz (3x2GB) Triple Channel DDR3 CAS: 8-8-8-24 values at 1600MHz Intel X58 or the cheaper version with higher latencies?:Corsair 6GB DDR3 XMS3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz (3x2GB) Triple Channel DDR3 CAS: 9-9-9-24 at 1600MHz Intel X58.GTX260 Core 216LG GGW-H20L Blu-Ray Rewriter & HD-DVD ROM Serial ATA Drive - RetailAsus Xonar D2X 7.1 PCI-Express Sound Card (Vista Gaming with DirectSound & EAX support)Akasa 'Eclipse' 62 caseWestern Digital Caviar Black 500GB SATA-II 32MB Cache 7200 - OEM (2 of these - one for FS9/XP, the other for FSX/Vista 64 Ultimate)Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme CPU Cooler with bolt on for LGA1366 socketI read that the i7920 can be o/c as easily as the i7940 and it is about half the price in UK. Similarly is there much point in going for the lower latency DDR3? Thanks for all the advice. I'm almost there!John

Just a couple of hints "if I were you":1. I'd hesitate before gambling on getting a good specimen of the 920. The 965 might be overkill: but it might be worth seeing if you can stretch for the 940 because you will have better odds of getting a decent over-clocker.2. I'd go for the fastest and lowest latency RAM I could afford. There is always a debate about how influential latency is on FSX and I don't pretend it makes a blinding difference: but IMHO (with the E8600@4.33GHz, X48 and DDR3-1600 7-7-7-22 at PL7 with latency at about ~46ns) it makes a subtle contribution in a world in which there are no silver bullets.3. You might want to re-think the GPU. Some opinions previously expressed here, from respectable sources, are that for FSX you'd be better off with an 8800Ultra (or a GTX 280).4. If you go for the P6K Deluxe then do please get the one with the gadget and tell us all whether/how it works. Otherwise, I agree that you should go for the Rampage II Extreme: the X48 version (the Rampage Extreme) has proved to be pretty solid and reliable in my experience and - critically - it has TWO BIOSes, making it very easy to recover from occasional over-enthusiasm.5. If you haven't already, then have a look at the PCSpecialist website (I have absolutely no connection with them, except that I've ordered 2 PCs from them in the last 6 months: both of them fine). I've been eyeing up their prices and if you out-source or re-use your video card and re-use your OS and HDs (and possibly also your PSU), you can pick up quite a good deal - though you might want to check exactly what specification of RAM they offer and any warranty implications of (re-)using your own kit.Tim

[betelgeuse 41]

Thanks again to all. I've done my sums and they aren't adding up too well, especially if I have to go for an i7 940. I might have to re-think the i7 set up, and go back to Q9650 or even the E8600 with DDR2. Nothing is ever perfect and compromises always have to be made - fact of life. If I go for the Q9650 with DDR2 can someone recommend a mobo - Sharrow says not to chose one which accepts DDR2 and DDR3. Tim, thanks for the PCSpecialist tip - I've been on their site and I might use them. I've always built my own machines in the past but I'll see what they offer. I'll post again in a few days when I've finally placed an order.John

[Guest djt01]

If I go for the Q9650 with DDR2 can someone recommend a mobo

That

[Sharrow 0]

Go for the Q9650, motherboard as below, 2 x 2GB DDR2 RAM and the GTX260 Core 216 (do not buy the original non core 216).Make sure you have a decent power supply unit - 550W minimum is what I would look at for this setup. 750W would be better if and when you get to overclocking. Please shout if you need PSU suggestions. Choice of DDR2 RAM is important - what you want is low latency (4 or 5) pretty much above all else. OCZ, Mushkin, Corsair. Others here can give you much more specific suggestions no doubt.If I was personally buying a DDR2 motherboard today I would most probably go with the Gigabyte X48-DQ6:http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/gigabyte_x48dq6/The Asus Rampage Formula, as suggested, is certainly well worth a look. Here are some reviews on it: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3208 http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/as...ampage_formula/I recommend you build yourself - it's not rocket science. Before your OS re-install check out http://www.tweakguides.com/TGTC.html and the Vista Guide.

[Guest simjunkie]

That