Flight1 Mustang ...

[Spaceman3 1]

The autopilot is not designed for a high speed approach. None of them are. If you are operating the aircraft outside of it's normal envelope, you should not be using the autopilot. Are you a r/w pilot?

Yes, I am a r/w pilot of 17 years and I fly high performance airplanes. Are you a r/w pilot? Actually, honestly, I don't care, because that piece of information is irrelevant to the discussion.

Yes, the do. However, to do the same Flight1 has to petition Navigraph to support their product. A petition may or may not be granted. Until said license is given by Navigraph, Flight1 has no database outside of the default FS database.... unless they purchase directly from Jeppesen which will indeed cost thousands of dollars.

That is not my problem. Other developers do what needs to be done to deliver quality products. I have never bought a PMDG product for example and not received what I paid for.

You're making claims that have no factual evidence to support them. That's a flawed approach.

What on earth are you talking about?

This isn't a 747, it's an extremely light jet.

I assume this statement is a joke?

I don't believe said nav data was promised with the original product, was it? Are you certain GPWS callouts exist in the Mustang? Drag characteristics that you claim are unrealistic, despite the fact you are not type-rated for the real aircraft, have no r/w experience with the real aircraft and only have a single test flight data set to draw your own questionable conclusions from. Altitude 'busting' is something FS is notorious for... not the aircraft. However, since you don't develop aircraft... you probably wouldn't know that. I can't say anything about the "don't sink"... but I can state that in the r/w it triggers based on ground proximity and vertical speed. Wind direction and speed indeed jumps around in FS. Apparently you think FS's weather system is flawless? LOL

A Garmin 1000 was promised. What use is it without nav data? There is a "500" callout and that's it. Again, I don't have to be type rated to tell you if a flight model seems unrealistic. I was open to the idea that I could be wrong. I asked several times for data or something to go on from Flight1 to assure me that the numbers where correct. The best I got was, "Trust us, we're experts on the Mustang". When I asked what made them experts, they locked the thread.I've conducted several test flights at this point, so you assume too much. It is irrelevant that the default FS AP is notorious for busting altitudes. I own several high quality add-ons that don't. I thought I was getting a high-quality add-on in the Mustang. It appears I was mistaken.Again, you assume a lot about me, whom you know nothing about. Are you sure you don't work for Flight1? In the other add-ons that I own, the wind indications do not jump around. I would expect the same level of quality from the Mustang. This is not normal behavior. The winds in FS do not alternate every 0.3 seconds back and forth. I'm surprised you were unaware of that. You strike me as someone who knows little about real world aviation and in addition has no first hand experience with the Flight1 product. I'm not sure what you hope to contribute to the conversation.

[jrhoads 6]

. You strike me as someone who knows little about real world aviation and in addition has no first hand experience with the Flight1 product. I'm not sure what you hope to contribute to the conversation. .

One thing I know about Dr. Gard is he and his father are incredible aviators.He is all yours Zane... Jim

[LAdamson 240]

I have never bought a PMDG product for example and not received what I paid for.

Then good things will come -------eventually!The PMDG forms have been notorious for customer complaining after..... release of a new aircraft...L.Adamson

[Spaceman3 1]

Well, Aint we got a party now... :( I figured Spaceman and Michael would both come to bat because I took both of them to task about what they perceived the aircraft to do and not what is expected of the pilot to adhere too.Folks, these guys have a little bit of a vendetta with me so take it as you will but they are not happy with me at all because I did not cow tow to what they wanted. I don't mean to be a rear quarter, but in this case the customer is not always right and in this case unreasonable and quite demanding. I expect another one to show up quickly because he blasted me in public 3 times now and he no longer has a happy existence in the forum space.

My goodness. I only purchased the Mustang 3 days ago and I have no idea who you are. I have no vendetta, other than asking a few questions on your forum. Immediately, those questions were turned back on me. When I asked why the drag on the aircraft seemed excessive, I was told I'm not flying the airplane correctly. What? When I reported that the AP wouldn't hold the GS, you said I was flying too fast (at a phase of flight where the AP had not even captured the GS). When others reported that the AP failed at any speed, you simply ignored them. All I received was evasions and accusations. No support. I simply wanted to share my unpleasant experience with the rest of the community so they could make an informed purchase decision. If you call it unreasonable to ask what the status is on a certain missing feature of the product, such as SID's and STAR's, then I stand guilty. If you call it unreasonable to ask for the glide ratio of the airplane, then yes, I'm guilty. If you call it unreasonable to expect the autopilot to work even when flying in accordance with the manual, then, yes, absolutely, you got me. I'm guilty.Maybe if you have a bunch of unhappy customers, you should re-examine your business practice of accuse and ignore.

The bottom line is Flight1 has a very good reputation for creating quality level aircraft and fixing anything we do indeed find as a legitimate problem.

How can you fix problems if you don't acknowledge the concerns of your customers?

And in case these fellow have forgotten, I have helped create that reputation over the many years I have been with Flight1. But I wont be railroaded by folks that want to be arm chair experts and not fly the aircraft properly

Again with the accusations of "not flying the airplane properly". The Flight Level Change still does not work properly in a step climb situation. I've followed the manual to the T. Set altitude, power to climb, hit the flight change button. The airplane porpoises up and down and never climbs more than 300 feet. Rather than acknowledge something wrong, all we get is "You're doing it wrong". Unreal.

or want to create a science project out of our products.

Couldn't be further from the truth. In honestly, you could make your products better by listening to your customers. You have the ultimate focus group, but you chose to ignore them when they report issues.

Most of our customers are not this way and I am very thankful for that. So... if I am painted to be Igor, I admit, I don't take much crap and those of you that know me, know that is true (Tom Allensworth will attest to that!) but understand that there is a whole lot more to the story than being painted here and be assured, that any product that comes out has its initial growing pains and omissions, but you can also be assured that the Mustang will be as pure bread as the real one in short order. My team and my beta testors are the very life blood of this project and I am very proud of them and how they have helped shape it. Perfect? Of course not. Terrible as painted by a few? Not a chance.

I never said the product was terrible. My quick takes have been very fair to the product. I said it had flaws and was not of the calibre that I expected. It has potential, but not if every valid issue that is raised gets swept under the rug.

[WarpD 824]

One thing I know about Dr. Gard is he and his father are incredible aviators.He is all yours Zane... Jim

I ain't Zane ;)

[jrhoads 6]

Folks. I rest my case. Jim

[Spaceman3 1]

After 25 years in business, I'm well aware that the saying " A customer is always right" is nothing but an old wives tale. :( I think a customer needs to have realistic expectations. It's very easy to see just what a simulated aircraft will and won't do, by waiting a few days before purchase.To say that since it has a Garmin, and then expect full functionality for the price tag, is a joke! In fact, these newer Garmins actually have more inflight info than many Jetliners. That is a fact!So..............I think I want XM Satellite Weather, that the real Garmin has, and I expect it at no extra charge; instead of paying a $29 -$99 subscription every month. Afterall, most Mustang drivers will want the $99 Pro-version! :( Really --- The best part of the Garmin is the weather overlay. That's why I use them. Heck with Sids and Stars... :( L.Adamson

You really think asking for departures and arrivals is asking for too much? I'm not sure what to say. Wouldn't you call that basic functionality? I mean, they simulated a terrain overlay for goodness sakes. Do I really need that or would I have complained if it wasn't there? Nope.

[jrhoads 6]

I ain't Zane ;)

He he... regardless, I still respect you Ed. :(Catch you later, I have work to do and a family to attend too....

[Spaceman3 1]

Then good things will come -------eventually!The PMDG forms have been notorious for customer complaining after..... release of a new aircraft...L.Adamson

Absolutely. Every release has issues and I can't imagine anyone thinking things will be perfect from the get go. At least PMDG and others developers work hard to address the bugs and get it right eventually.But you know, the Mustang really is the first totally perfect release ever. You should see their support form. There's nothing wrong with the plane at all, it's just people flying it wrong. :(

[Geofa 108]

You really think asking for departures and arrivals is asking for too much? I'm not sure what to say. Wouldn't you call that basic functionality? I mean, they simulated a terrain overlay for goodness sakes. Do I really need that or would I have complained if it wasn't there? Nope.

Not to side track the discussion-but as you state you are a "high performance" Rw pilot for 17 years-and I have been one for 19 going on 20-and I count total Stars/Sids I have ever gotten about 25 times in all those years (it might even be less-but I'd have to look at my logbooks)-is it that important on a GA single pilot business aircraft? I have landed in every Continental US State and realize it might be different elsewhere in the world but just curious. One of the times I got a rare Star in Long Beach, CA last year I forgot my kln94 had them as I had really never used them...ever.I noticed the Mustang doesn't include them but it doesn't bother me all that much-terrain overlay more important at least to me-terrain I have seen quite a bit and am thankful for a Garmin 496 and Fliteprep pro on a tablet pc that are a help there.Just curious-is your experience that different? ..

[LAdamson 240]

My goodness. I only purchased the Mustang 3 days ago and I have no idea who you are. I have no vendetta, other than asking a few questions on your forum. Immediately, those questions were turned back on me. When I asked why the drag on the aircraft seemed excessive, I was told I'm not flying the airplane correctly. What? When I reported that the AP wouldn't hold the GS, you said I was flying too fast (at a phase of flight where the AP had not even captured the GS). When others reported that the AP failed at any speed, you simply ignored them. All I received was evasions and accusations. No support. I simply wanted to share my unpleasant experience with the rest of the community so they could make an informed purchase decision. If you call it unreasonable to ask what the status is on a certain missing feature of the product, such as SID's and STAR's, then I stand guilty. If you call it unreasonable to ask for the glide ratio of the airplane, then yes, I'm guilty. If you call it unreasonable to expect the autopilot to work even when flying in accordance with the manual, then, yes, absolutely, you got me. I'm guilty.Maybe if you have a bunch of unhappy customers, you should re-examine your business practice of accuse and ignore.

I do know that "Geof", who is also responding on this forum; is much more positive about the Mustang than you. I also know that he's been flying his real life Baron under IFR rules for quite a few years now. He owned a single engine Beach before that. I do believe his expectations to be more realistic in regards to a $55 product. As to me, I'll just sit back and watch this exchange of ideas... Afterall, I bought that Garmin 696 "handheld" which has some functions that even 767's don't have. I could have had a pretty nice CPU or big screen for that. :( L.Adamson

Not to side track the discussion-but as you state you are a "high performance" Rw pilot for 17 years-and I have been one for 19 going on 20-and I count total Stars/Sids I have ever gotten about 25 times in all those years (it might even be less-but I'd have to look at my logbooks)-is it that so important on a GA single pilot business aircraft? I have landed in every Continental US State and realize it might be different elsewhere in the world but just curious. One of the times I got a rare Star in Long Beach, CA last year I forgot my kln94 had them as I had really never used them...ever.I noticed the Mustang doesn't include them but it doesn't bother me all that much-terrain overlay more important at least to me-terrain I have seen quite a bit and am thankful for a Garmin 496 and Fliteprep pro on a tablet pc that are a help there.Just curious-is your experience that different? ..

And you beat me to the punch, as I was just talking about you! :)L.Adamson

[Geofa 108]

I do know that "Geof", who is also responding on this forum; is much more positive about the Mustang than you. I also know that he's been flying his real life Baron under IFR rules for quite a few years now. He owned a single engine Beach before that. I do believe his expectations to be more realistic in regards to a $55 product. As to me, I'll just sit back and watch this exchange of ideas... Afterall, I bought that Garmin 696 "handheld" which has some functions that even 767's don't have. I could have had a pretty nice CPU or big screen for that. :( L.AdamsonAnd you beat me to the punch, as I was just talking about you! :)L.Adamson

Larry,That 696 is awfully nice. We are debating trading our 496 in on one. Let us know how it goes. I consider xm weather a go/no go now and look forward to it being simulated on fs at some point.

[Spaceman3 1]

Not to side track the discussion-but as you state you are a "high performance" Rw pilot for 17 years-and I have been one for 19 going on 20-and I count total Stars/Sids I have ever gotten about 25 times in all those years (it might even be less-but I'd have to look at my logbooks)-is it that so important on a GA single pilot business aircraft? I have landed in every Continental US State and realize it might be different elsewhere in the world but just curious. One of the times I got a rare Star in Long Beach, CA last year I forgot my kln94 had them as I had really never used them...ever.I noticed the Mustang doesn't include them but it doesn't bother me all that much-terrain overlay more important at least to me-terrain I have seen quite a bit and am thankful for a Garmin 496 and Fliteprep pro on a tablet pc that are a help there.Just curious-is your experience that different? ..

I hear you, yeah, I never fly STAR's in the real world, but that's the fun of flight simulator. I had planned to use the Mustang online to fly into a lot of large airports such as LAX, LAS, SAN, etc.. Flying the STAR is a no-brainer. Additionally, even in the real world, almost every IFR flight out of my home airport uses a SID. It just doesn't seem like that big of a deal or an extrodinary request, given that other developers pretty much include those things standard.

[zfehr 1]

Not to side track the discussion-but as you state you are a "high performance" Rw pilot for 17 years-and I have been one for 19 going on 20-and I count total Stars/Sids I have ever gotten about 25 times in all those years (it might even be less-but I'd have to look at my logbooks)-is it that so important on a GA single pilot business aircraft? I have landed in every Continental US State and realize it might be different elsewhere in the world but just curious. One of the times I got a rare Star in Long Beach, CA last year I forgot my kln94 had them as I had really never used them...ever.I noticed the Mustang doesn't include them but it doesn't bother me all that much-terrain overlay more important at least to me-terrain I have seen quite a bit and am thankful for a Garmin 496 and Fliteprep pro on a tablet pc that are a help there.Just curious-is your experience that different? ..

I'll add on to Geof's response here, 22 1/2 years licensed, 43 years when you count all the flying I did with my Dad and I remember that far back quite well. Even when flying into or out of larger, busier hubs when we'd get a SID we'd usually be vectored off of it shortly after leaving the airport traffic area and that was in a medium twin. The only time I run into this kind of hang up and argumentive discussion about SIDs and STARs is in conjunction with flight simulator games. Real world simulation training doesn't seem to be as hung up on them, the FAA certified version of X-Plane (which I have along with Cat II certified hardware) doesn't have SIDs, STARs or even programmed approaches, you follow the clipboard chart in that case. My involvement with real pilots includes being on the board of directors for the Columbia Aviation Association. In our weekly meetings table discussion may be about particularly tricky approaches but rarely talks about SIDs and STARs and some of our members do operate Citations, Falcons and even a Gulfstream.

[Spaceman3 1]

I do know that "Geof", who is also responding on this forum; is much more positive about the Mustang than you. I also know that he's been flying his real life Baron under IFR rules for quite a few years now. He owned a single engine Beach before that. I do believe his expectations to be more realistic in regards to a $55 product. As to me, I'll just sit back and watch this exchange of ideas... Afterall, I bought that Garmin 696 "handheld" which has some functions that even 767's don't have. I could have had a pretty nice CPU or big screen for that. :(

Well honestly the price isn't an issue. I guess I just don't appreciate it when I'm sold a bill of goods (missing features). Like I said, I'm realistic about what to expect from a FS release and I would have no problem had I felt that Flight1 was responsive to their customers (not just me). I understand that it takes time to get things right, but I've never seen such a hostile attitude toward the very customers who are trying to provide feedback and ultimately get a better product.