Converting To 8 Bit - Paintshop Pro

[Guest Epanel]

Hey guys,I haven't been on avsim much recently due to my GCSEs coming up next year.OK, I have Corel Paintshop Pro Photo X2 (which is very similar to Paintshop Pro X). I have made a very high quality panel bitmap (from photos I took - 1280x960 resolution).I go to Image- Decrease colour depth -RGB 8bit to obviously convert the bitmap to 8 bit.I load up flight sim with the panel but the panel bitmap's quality has gone right out the window, there are dots everywhere, lots of stripes across the panel and it looks absolutely terrible. The annoying thing is, it looks great on Paintshop - and yes, I have sharpened the image once, and I also sharpened it a second time and that didn't sort it.Please someone tell me how to fix this problem! This is really getting on my nerves :( Thank you very much guysKind RegardsJonathan

[n4gix 4,947]

Please someone tell me how to fix this problem! This is really getting on my nerves :(

Try the techniques I've described in this Wiki article on how to reduce/eliminate the gradient banding:http://forums.flightsim.com/fswiki/index.p...radient_Banding

[Guest Epanel]

Hi,Thanks for your reply but surely adding blur and noise would drastically decrease the quality? Also, I've worked out how to do it, I converted it to indexed colour in photoshop and then put it in paintshop and changed it to 8 bit but there is still a tiny bit of contraband, is there any other way to get rid of it?Thanks

[WarpD 824]

Um... indexed is 8-bit in Photoshop.

[n4gix 4,947]

Um... indexed is 8-bit in Photoshop.

Yes, it is. However there is an older "8bit format" that is horribly compressed. Frankly there's really no reason to convert a lovely 24bit image to 8bits...

[n4gix 4,947]

Hi,Thanks for your reply but surely adding blur and noise would drastically decrease the quality? Also, I've worked out how to do it, I converted it to indexed colour in photoshop and then put it in paintshop and changed it to 8 bit but there is still a tiny bit of contraband, is there any other way to get rid of it?Thanks

You don't add noise -or- blur to the entire image, only to selected portions that might need smoothing out the banding.

[Guest Epanel]

Yes, it is. However there is an older "8bit format" that is horribly compressed. Frankly there's really no reason to convert a lovely 24bit image to 8bits...

Hi,When I tried to put a 24bit bmp in FS then from my recollection, this made the problem worse. I know for a fact 'edetroit' converts his bmps into 8bit in Paintshop but I don't know what he does beforehand. Anyway, I'll restart the bmp and make it 16bit and see if that makes any difference.Thanks for all your help so far guysHave a wonderful christmas and don't worry, I don't expect a reply anytime soon :( Kind RegardsJonathan HO HO HO

[Guest Epanel]

**The attachments are an example of what is happening - first one is in paintshop and the second in flight sim**edetroit once pm'd me and told me edits all of his panel bitmaps in 16 or 32 bit colour and also sharpens them. He then converts the bitmap to 8 bit but I don't know how he does that. I clicked 8 bit RGB in paintshop but when I click properties on the bitmap it says it's 24 bit. It still looks bad in flight sim so do I have to convert it to indexed colour 8 bit instead of RGB? This still loses a lot of quality though...Basically my goal is to get the bitmap to display in flight sim the way it does in paintshop but I'm not sure how to do that like edetroit does - his panels looks immaculate on flight sim...please somebody give me more suggestions :)Thank you Kind RegardsJonathan

[dragonflightdesign 98]

I agree with Bill here - unless you are squeezing for every last few bytes in a huge (+490Mb) gau file, there is no need to convert down from 24-bit. At the very most, I'd go for 16-bit as I understand that FS reduces 24-bit pics to 16-bit anyway. It's also very difficult to see the difference.-Dai

[Guest Epanel]

I agree with Bill here - unless you are squeezing for every last few bytes in a huge (+490Mb) gau file, there is no need to convert down from 24-bit. At the very most, I'd go for 16-bit as I understand that FS reduces 24-bit pics to 16-bit anyway. It's also very difficult to see the difference.-Dai

hey DaiI would do that but I thought flight sim panels had to be 8 bit 256 colours? That's what edetroit told me anyway. Because whenever I edit a bmp from say, the internet, photoshop automatically puts that as 24 bit. I then put that image in flight sim and there was LOADS of contraband and specks everywhere - and it was a very high quality image in photoshop.So is it possible to have the 24 bit image without all of the contraband all over the place because I didn't think it was possible. Would you be kind enough to take me through the steps you do after you've done all of the editing on it - how you convert down, remove contraband without having to use blur etc. and overall keeping the same quality image as in photoshop on flight sim?Thanks for your help so farKind RegardsJonathan

[n4gix 4,947]

There is rule #1 for me... never edit the original, base image...What I do is crop/copy/paste any area that require touch up to a new layer, then make a copy of that layer on which to experiment...I then apply either motion blur or a bit of noise to that layer, collapse the layers, export to 24bit format and test...Then I use the "Undo" as often as necessary to reverse the collapse and restore my layers... make any needed corrections, wash, rinse, and repeat these steps until I'm satisfied with the end product.Here is a link to an un-retouched screenshot of a 2d panel and gauge set I was commissioned to do:Daytime: http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/36/abc1...descreenil9.jpgNightime: http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5383/ab...eennighted1.jpg

[Guest Epanel]

There is rule #1 for me... never edit the original, base image...What I do is crop/copy/paste any area that require touch up to a new layer, then make a copy of that layer on which to experiment...I then apply either motion blur or a bit of noise to that layer, collapse the layers, export to 24bit format and test...Then I use the "Undo" as often as necessary to reverse the collapse and restore my layers... make any needed corrections, wash, rinse, and repeat these steps until I'm satisfied with the end product.Here is a link to an un-retouched screenshot of a 2d panel and gauge set I was commissioned to do:Daytime: http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/36/abc1...descreenil9.jpgNightime: http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5383/ab...eennighted1.jpg

Hey Bill,So your panels are all 24 bit colour? If you didn't edit the original and just exported it as 24 bit would you get lots of contraband? I have tested mine sharpened and non sharpened and sharpening the image reduces the contraband quite well.BTW just so you know, I am working with a photograph, not a painted bitmap. Thanks

[n4gix 4,947]

Hey Bill,So your panels are all 24 bit colour? If you didn't edit the original and just exported it as 24 bit would you get lots of contraband? I have tested mine sharpened and non sharpened and sharpening the image reduces the contraband quite well.BTW just so you know, I am working with a photograph, not a painted bitmap. Thanks

That is a hi-resolution photo I obtained directly from Cessna. The original image was a 4099x1612 JPG file. I cropped and resized it to a 1680x1050 (wide screen) PSD file. I exported it as a 24bit .bmp file and tested in FSX, noticed quite a bit of banding and other artifacts.After a few hours of cleanup, what you saw in the screenshots is what I wound up with... ;)Three weeks later, I had the gauges done... :(

[Guest Epanel]

That is a hi-resolution photo I obtained directly from Cessna. The original image was a 4099x1612 JPG file. I cropped and resized it to a 1680x1050 (wide screen) PSD file. I exported it as a 24bit .bmp file and tested in FSX, noticed quite a bit of banding and other artifacts.After a few hours of cleanup, what you saw in the screenshots is what I wound up with... ;)Three weeks later, I had the gauges done... B)

Hi Bill,Thanks for all of your help so far, I know i'm not the only one now that gets banding when the image is 24 bit :( . I know what 'cleanup' generally means but what are the most effective steps to take and what are the best steps for you to take to clean the image up with no banding? Sharpening? Do you use your method by adding noise and blur on all the bits that need smoothing? Is there another way?Also, i tested the 'one step noise remover' in paintshop but that made the banding much worse, any thoughts on why?and I know - the gauges can be a b**ch to do :( but your an expert on them :( I really appreciate all of your helpKind RegardsJonathan

[dragonflightdesign 98]

BTW just so you know, I am working with a photograph, not a painted bitmap.

Ah... then it's most likely either quality of the starting photograph or, if its a very high quality one, the texture on the panel that's giving you the trouble. If it's a highly textured panel (e.g. plastic moulded to look like leather) then I'm pretty sure that it's the FS conversion to 16 bit that's giving you the problem. In which case, take the same road as Bill... I'm using some very high quality photographs at the moment (6K pixels+ reduced down) but they are of a painted, untextured metal panel and consequently FS renders them without fuss (except at some light levels and I can live with that).-Dai