Asa On Dual-boot Pc

[Guest lingfors]

If this is true, I want a refund.

[psolk 3,037]

If this is true, I want a refund.

Actually, everything they advertised is accurate:Per Jim

"Each license is valid for one installation whether that be a computer or a partition. It doesn't matter if it is for FS04, FSX or both. You can install on 3 computers/partitions, but the other 2 computers/partitions must be run in Offline Mode at all times.A single user CAN use one purchase for both FS04 and FSX, if FS04 AND FSX are installed on the same machine/same partition."

It doesn't matter if it is for FS04, FSX or both.So If you have FS9 and FSX installed on the same machine they have designed a single interface for one, the other or both, what is inaccurate? You are trying to install multiple times on different operating systems regardless if they are on the same physical machine.-Paul

[Guest lingfors]

Actually, everything they advertised is accurate:

Where on their homepage do they mention this "feature"?I don't know exactly how they connect a specific licence to a specific customer, so let's take a couple of examples:1) A licence can be activated only once, no matter if it's on the same computer/partition/OS installation/IP address/MAC address/etc.)Great, whenever you feel the need to reinstall, for whatever reason, you're screwed.2) A licence can be activated multiple times from the same computer.You upgrade, and you're screwed. You want to move from local installation to networked installation, you're screwed.3) A licence can be activated multiple times from the same IP.You move, you're screwed. Your ISP use DHCP with short lease times, you're screwed.4) A licence can be activated multiple times from the same MAC address (unlikely method).You switch network card, you're screwed.Basically, HiFi is selling you broken software, most likely in an attempt to minimize piracy. However, by doing so they are punishing their customers more than the pirates. Plus, any software where you have to contact the developer whenever you want to reinstall is, in my eyes, broken.So until they fix this, or clarify that I am in fact incorrect, I recommend anyone not to buy this software.And I want a refund.

[Guest Aviator4life]

Edited for mistaken dual post.

[Guest Aviator4life]

Actually, everything they advertised is accurate:Per JimIt doesn't matter if it is for FS04, FSX or both.So If you have FS9 and FSX installed on the same machine they have designed a single interface for one, the other or both, what is inaccurate? You are trying to install multiple times on different operating systems regardless if they are on the same physical machine.-Paul

No it is not, given the two situations I describe, and that is exactly my point. One user, one license, the user owns two versions of MSFS (FS9 and FSX). No functionality in online mode for both (remember, the standard they set themselves with the product description is " . . . fully supported to take advantage of all the features they individually offer."No they are not, if the user only has one license and a dual boot machine with FS9 and FSX on different partitions or harddrives.I understand perfectly, you are only looking at it from the point of view of a consumer who only has one operating system and/or has both FS9 and FSX on the same partition or harddrive.I'm NOT talking about software piracy here and resent even the implication of it. I AM TALKING ABOUT ONE USER, ONE LICENSE, TWO VERSIONS of MSFS ON THE SAME PHYSICAL COMPUTER WITHOUT FULL ONLINE FUNCTIONALITY FOR BOTH FS9 AND FSX, AS ADVERTISED!"psolk", I know exactly what I am talking about. One user, with one license, and a dual boot machine who CANNOT "take advantage of all the features they (FS9 and FSX) individually offer." I didn't see a qualifying statement on the HiFi website anywhere in the product description stating that the dual functionality was only available if both FS9 and FSX were installed on the same partition or harddrive.EDIT: Not to mention all of the above in "lingfors" reply above!If I'm wrong please show me where they state that or something similar. Unless of course they have updated their product description since the last time I saw it.I have no agenda or ulterior motive here, I am simply a consumer/enduser who is in a position with hardware, to take advantage of all that ASA is claimed to offer. Yet I cannot because I am assumed to be up to no good. That IS the point of every second I've spent posting in this thread.Forwarned is Forarmed. Ignorance is Bliss. Take your pick, makes no difference to me.Best Regards and Happy Holidays to All! :(

[psolk 3,037]

No it is not, given the two situations I describe, and that is exactly my point. One user, one license, the user owns two versions of MSFS (FS9 and FSX). No functionality in online mode for both (remember, the standard they set themselves with the product description is " . . . fully supported to take advantage of all the features they individually offer."No they are not, if the user only has one license and a dual boot machine with FS9 and FSX on different partitions or harddrives.I understand perfectly, you are only looking at it from the point of view of a consumer who only has one operating system and/or has both FS9 and FSX on the same partition or harddrive.I'm NOT talking about software piracy here and resent even the implication of it. I AM TALKING ABOUT ONE USER, ONE LICENSE, TWO VERSIONS of MSFS ON THE SAME PHYSICAL COMPUTER WITHOUT FULL ONLINE FUNCTIONALITY FOR BOTH FS9 AND FSX, AS ADVERTISED!"psolk", I know exactly what I am talking about. One user, with one license, and a dual boot machine who CANNOT "take advantage of all the features they (FS9 and FSX) individually offer." I didn't see a qualifying statement on the HiFi website anywhere in the product description stating that the dual functionality was only available if both FS9 and FSX were installed on the same partition or harddrive.EDIT: Not to mention all of the above in "lingfors" reply above!If I'm wrong please show me where they state that or something similar. Unless of course they have updated their product description since the last time I saw it.I have no agenda or ulterior motive here, I am simply a consumer/enduser who is in a position with hardware, to take advantage of all that ASA is claimed to offer. Yet I cannot because I am assumed to be up to no good. That IS the point of every second I've spent posting in this thread.Forwarned is Forarmed. Ignorance is Bliss. Take your pick, makes no difference to me.Best Regards and Happy Holidays to All! :(

Guys, I actually have 6 boot options on my machine which is why I always buy OEM software and I usually pay quite a premium for it. With Windows it is usually about $75 more for an OEM version which permits the type of licensing you are asking for. ASA is sold as a single user license to most that is install it once, use it once. Windows has OEM and single License, so does Office, that is why there are different licensing models to accommodate your examples and even OEM only permits multiple installations on the same machine so half the example you gave of "broken software" are actually broken license agreements.Look, my system has 2 XP 32 OS's and 2 XP 64 OS's with each 32 bit OS having a /3gb option and and regular option, hence 6 boot options so I would love it if what you guys are asking for was the norm in software licensing but its not. In a lot of instances where OEM licensing is not available a nice quiet behind the scenes e-mail to the developer politely explaining the situation will get you a pleasant resolution. A loud confrontational post in their forums will not so if that is too much and makes ASA and every other piece of Software that follows this licensing model broken then thanks for all the forewarning and go ahead and contact the developer via email about a refund. Not much more to say.From my perception you guys are making this into a whole issue of malicious deceptive marketing on the part of HiFi and anyone who has been a long time customer of these guys knows you could be further off base.All the best,-Paul

[Guest lingfors]

Guys, I actually have 6 boot options on my machine which is why I always buy OEM software and I usually pay quite a premium for it. With Windows it is usually about $75 more for an OEM version which permits the type of licensing you are asking for. ASA is sold as a single user license to most that is install it once, use it once. Windows has OEM and single License, so does Office, that is why there are different licensing models to accommodate your examples and even OEM only permits multiple installations on the same machine so half the example you gave of "broken software" are actually broken license agreements.Look, my system has 2 XP 32 OS's and 2 XP 64 OS's with each 32 bit OS having a /3gb option and and regular option, hence 6 boot options so I would love it if what you guys are asking for was the norm in software licensing but its not. In a lot of instances where OEM licensing is not available a nice quiet behind the scenes e-mail to the developer politely explaining the situation will get you a pleasant resolution. A loud confrontational post in their forums will not so if that is too much and makes ASA and every other piece of Software that follows this licensing model broken then thanks for all the forewarning and go ahead and contact the developer via email about a refund. Not much more to say.From my perception you guys are making this into a whole issue of malicious deceptive marketing on the part of HiFi and anyone who has been a long time customer of these guys knows you could be further off base.All the best,-Paul

1) If the licence is broken, it doesn't matter how good the software is... The product as a hole is still broken...2) If you have purchased a software product legally, and you can't install/run a single instance of it (say, after a hardware upgrade followed by a harddrive format), the software is broken.3) Where can I read the license agreement? When I install ASA. When can I install ASA? After I download it. When can I download it? After I buy it. See what's wrong here? (If I can read the license somewhere before purchase, please enlighten me.)3) Would you buy a car if use was limited to odd days of the month only? Or if only you, but not your wife/parent/child/sibling/co-worker, was allowed to drive it? (For those that wish to use ASA in a WideView environment, that's more of a gray area since they actually want to run the ASA instances concurrently.)4) Afaik, there is only one license model for ASA. It is, however, possible to buy ASA several times.5) For some people, money is an issue. We can't all buy everything 17 times, or even 2...6) Information is king. If I had the info that I have now, I wouldn't have bought ASA at all. That way, I could have saved myself and HiFi the hassle of requesting a refund. Not to say the bad PR. I can only hope these forum posts help someone else to make a more informed decision than myself.

[JSkorna 137]

Hi,Since my last post I have lost sense of the whole thread but I will try.No, you cannot install ASA on 2 partitions and activate both. That is no different then installing on 2 different machines. So if FS04 is on one machine and FSX is on another should we provide 2 licenses?Yes one purchase of ASA will interact with both FS04 and FSX on the same partition/machine."1) A licence can be activated only once, no matter if it's on the same computer/partition/OS installation/IP address/MAC address/etc.)Great, whenever you feel the need to reinstall, for whatever reason, you're screwed"Totally wrong. We have reissued download links for FREE since day one and we will issue keys for FREE. Please don't assume.#2,3, and 4 are totally wrong also.Lingfors, please send me your order details and I'll immediately issue your refund. Aviator, the same holds true for you. We want users to be happy as this is a hobby and meant to be fun and enjoyable!Thanks,

[Guest Aviator4life]

Jim,For the record, I never said or implied anything like "maliciousness" (it was another who mistakenly interpreted this end of the discussion who did that). Things always seem to go wrong when people feel the need to ascribe some sort of emotion, regardless of the words actually written on a forum reply.I did use the words "clever marketing" and only meant that what is NOT stated can sometimes be just as important as what is stated. I will always advocate informed decisions instead of assumptions, HiFi is not a "special" case in this regard.You can compare apples to oranges all you want. As the owner of a SINGLE PC, comparing my situation to someone who wants to install the product on two separate machines in an effort to deliberately circumvent the purpose for copy protection in the first place, well that does rub me the wrong way. What you don't seem to understand is that I am NOT trying to rip-off anything from HiFi. This is a valid concern arising from a perfectly reasonable situation, no need to be patronizing with the "move along, nothing to see here" mini-speech.I have just reviewed the license agreement for Active Sky 6 which states: "One copy of ASv6 may either be used by a single person who uses the software personally on one or more computers, or installed on a single workstation used non simultaneously by multiple people, but not both."Since according to you, a dual boot pc with two operating systems is the same thing as two computers, I interpret the license agreement above to mean that I CAN in fact LEGALLY install Active Sky 6 on my FSX/Vista drive for MY OWN USE, in addition to having it on my FS9/XP drive. So, I should now be able to purchase ASA while logged onto my FSX/Vista drive (OS) and be able to qualify for the Active Sky 6.5 check and the $10 USD discount for being a previous customer. You should have been able to tell me this in the first place but you did not. Go back and reread my posts, it will all make sense to you, trust me. I know what I have written in this thread.As for the full functionality for both FS9 and FSX, I think you should add a disclaimer to your product info page stating that complete functionality is NOT possible for users with FS9 and FSX installations which reside on separate partitions of the same harddrive, or on separate harddrives of a dual boot system. This IS an important thing for potential customers to know. Why not state it as a point of information in order to avoid exactly what happened in this thread (or the same sort of thing with customers that erroneously decide to purchase ASA thinking they will be able to update the Wx engines for both FS9 and FSX on their dual boot/multi-partition pc?As for all the comparisons you have made, well, they have made one thing clear to me which is very disappointing. If your point of view is representative of present day HiFi then the company has changed a lot in the last few years. I AM already a repeat customer (WXre and Active Sky, again, reread my posts) and am familiar with how business has been done in the past. If the current state of mind at HiFi is to assume that all their potential customers are out to steal their products, well then, things have changed.I do not need a refund as I haven't purchased ASA. I was going to, but in spite of everything I asked about, was not given the reply you should have been able to provide. A reply, which should have been far different than your "dual boot pc is the same as two separate pc's answer". I assure you, I only have one computer sitting on my desk, you simply refuse to accept that fact.Reread my posts, I have no agenda or animosity towards you or HiFi, I stated this before. But I will make informed decisions about my purchases, and will continue to warn others to do the same if and when the situation winds up on my lap.My apologies if I have made you or your company uncomfortable with this exchange of ideas. I was simply looking for a solution to my situation/setup but wound up with all this nonsense instead of a direct and clear answer.I'm not inclined to buy a THIRD product from HiFi as a result. Thanks for helping me make my decision. I just saved $40USD.Best Regards and Happy Holidays to All! :((and that includes you and yours too Jim, no sarcasm intended whatsoever)

[Guest lingfors]

We have reissued download links for FREE since day one and we will issue keys for FREE. Please don't assume.

That's not the issue. I know you are very helpful if your customers need a new download or license key for some reason. I myself had to request a new license for ASX as I forgot to save it when I first bought it, and I'm very thankful I got one. The issue, however, is that you now not only need to ask for a new license if you forget to write it down or suffer a hard drive crash. You would possibly have to ask for a new license every single time you want to reinstall ASA!

Lingfors, please send me your order details and I'll immediately issue your refund. Aviator, the same holds true for you. We want users to be happy as this is a hobby and meant to be fun and enjoyable!

Refund request sent using the contact form on your website. Thanks for your service.

[Guest tmetzinger]

Andy,"Jim I think your first point needs more clarification as you make it sound like only one of your possible three separate PC's with an install of ASA on it can ever be allowed to go online to get weather, or at least thats how I read it. What I actually think you mean is that only one PC can be in online mode at anyone time. You cant for example have the FS9 version online on one PC, whilst at the same time have the version on another PC with FSX on it online at the same time, you could use this second PC with FSX on it in offline mode though."That is what I exactly mean: Each ASA license can be registered and ASA run online one time. You cannot have Computer A, and Computer B with the same purchase of ASA installed on both and then register ASA from both computers. Once you register Computer A, you cannot again register Computer B using the same license. This is just like Windows XP, you cannot install on two different machines and activate both copies with Microsoft. MS will tell you that your license is already activated, the same with ASA. Partitions will work the same way. And no, "at the same time" does not come into play, it will be "at any time" the second and third install cannot be Online.

Um... I understand what you're saying. But MS WILL in fact let you install XP on two partitions on the same system, because it looks at the hardware to define/identify a "system". It doesn't appear that ASA can be registered twice on the same system with two different operating systems installed, so a dual-boot system will need two licenses.This is also a difference from AS6 - where I could have the same single copy installed on multiple machines. All of which is ok, it just wasn't terribly clear before I upgraded. I'm happy at the moment, as I only run FS9 on XP. I assume I can run my "Old" AS6 on one partition, and move ASA to my "other" partition when I install Vista and FSX? I'll still only have one instance of ASA activated, and only one of the two products will ever be "live".

[Guest Aviator4life]

Um... I understand what you're saying. But MS WILL in fact let you install XP on two partitions on the same system, because it looks at the hardware to define/identify a "system". It doesn't appear that ASA can be registered twice on the same system with two different operating systems installed, so a dual-boot system will need two licenses.This is also a difference from AS6 - where I could have the same single copy installed on multiple machines. All of which is ok, it just wasn't terribly clear before I upgraded. I'm happy at the moment, as I only run FS9 on XP. I assume I can run my "Old" AS6 on one partition, and move ASA to my "other" partition when I install Vista and FSX? I'll still only have one instance of ASA activated, and only one of the two products will ever be "live".

According to Jim:No you cannot if you install and activate ASA from your current drive/partition to use it with FS9 right now. When you later install a second OS and in effect your pc becomes a dual boot machine, you will be able to install ASA and use it in offline mode with FSX on your Vista drive/partition, but you will NOT be able to register your license from your new OS. That would be the same - from HiFi's point of view (unless Jim has mispoken) - as wanting to use 1 license on two machines, and they can't have that. But of course even though this is their current policy, it is safe to assume they will issue a second license when you ask for it when you install a second OS on your machine. Yup, ok, sure . . . Isnt' that what is called a contradiction? And if they would in fact be willing to hand out second licenses to users who have dual boot pcs, then why not just stay with the same policy as the one from AS6 and skip all the rigamarole of having customers request and then be granted a second license? Doesn't make much sense, does it?Yes, a lot of things have changed with this company. Used to be they trusted you as a paying customer to use one of their licensed products on more than one pc (or a dual boot pc) so long as it was strictly for your own use as the paying customer. Now, they assume your intentions, AS A PAYING CUSTOMER, are less than honorable and have changed their licensing policy to reflect their new philosophy.Incredible to me that a company with HiFi's reputation and past track record in the flight-sim community would now take this stance towards their very own customers.And now I'm out of this conversation/thread, have wasted too much time on this already. It's really simple: If you have/will have a dual-boot machine and are willing to buy two licenses in order to use ASA IN ONLINE MODE on one OS with FS9, and then IN ONLINE MODE with FSX on your second OS (But not simultaneously, and for the strict use of the license purchaser), go for it. In my book that will never be full dual functionality for the price of a single license, but to each their own. Again . . .Forwarned is Forarmed. Ignorance is Bliss. Take your pick, makes no difference to me.Best Regards and Happy Holidays to All! :(EDIT: Of course you can give them your money now, NOT activate ASA from your current drive/OS and then install and activate ASA on your new partition/harddrive and use it with FSX with full functionality. But this still doesn't change a thing for ASA users who want to do this at the present time who currently have dual-boot pc's and wish to use ASA with both FS9 and FSX in order to take advantage of the full functionality that is so proudly described in the product description. The line they left out still remains, "However, if you want to take advantage of this dual functionality with FS9 and FSX, you must do so from a single partition and OS, unless of course you want to buy a second license."This is exactly what Jim has been saying. But of course, HiFi will also grant you a second license if/when you install that second OS, right Jim? Okey Doke.

[Guest tmetzinger]

According to Jim:No you cannot if you install and activate ASA from your current drive/partition to use it with FS9 right now. When you later install a second OS and in effect your pc becomes a dual boot machine, you will be able to install ASA and use it in offline mode with FSX on your Vista drive/partition, but you will NOT be able to register your license from your new OS. That would be the same - from HiFi's point of view (unless Jim has mispoken) - as wanting to use 1 license on two machines, and they can't have that. But of course even though this is their current policy, it is safe to assume they will issue a second license when you ask for it when you install a second OS on your machine. Yup, ok, sure . . . Isnt' that what is called a contradiction? And if they would in fact be willing to hand out second licenses to users who have dual boot pcs, then why not just stay with the same policy as the one from AS6 and skip all the rigamarole of having customers request and then be granted a second license? Doesn't make much sense, does it?Yes, a lot of things have changed with this company. Used to be they trusted you as a paying customer to use one of their licensed products on more than one pc (or a dual boot pc) so long as it was strictly for your own use as the paying customer. Now, they assume your intentions, AS A PAYING CUSTOMER, are less than honorable and have changed their licensing policy to reflect their new philosophy.Incredible to me that a company with HiFi's reputation and past track record in the flight-sim community would now take this stance towards their very own customers.And now I'm out of this conversation/thread, have wasted too much time on this already. It's really simple: If you have/will have a dual-boot machine and are willing to buy two licenses in order to use ASA IN ONLINE MODE on one OS with FS9, and then IN ONLINE MODE with FSX on your second OS (But not simultaneously, and for the strict use of the license purchaser), go for it. In my book that will never be full dual functionality for the price of a single license, but to each their own. Again . . .Forwarned is Forarmed. Ignorance is Bliss. Take your pick, makes no difference to me.Best Regards and Happy Holidays to All! :(EDIT: Of course you can give them your money now, NOT activate ASA from your current drive/OS and then install and activate ASA on your new partition/harddrive and use it with FSX with full functionality. But this still doesn't change a thing for ASA users who want to do this at the present time who currently have dual-boot pc's and wish to use ASA with both FS9 and FSX in order to take advantage of the full functionality that is so proudly described in the product description. The line they left out still remains, "However, if you want to take advantage of this dual functionality with FS9 and FSX, you must do so from a single partition and OS, unless of course you want to buy a second license."This is exactly what Jim has been saying. But of course, HiFi will also grant you a second license if/when you install that second OS, right Jim? Okey Doke.

My plan (which may not have been clear) will be to DEINSTALL ASA from my FS9 partition and install it (and get a new key) on my ASX partition. Thus ASX will only be on one partition.I have significant sympathy for HiFi here - licensing software, and enforcing the license, is a tremendous PITA. We _still_ don't have a widely accepted concept of what a "single PC" is, what with virtualization and dual-boot and so on. So I understand (now) where they've drawn the lines, and I don't forsee having any issues with it.Some suggestions for other options based on how I see other real and sim aviation software packages working (or how I wish ASA was licensed):Use hardware (MS uses CPUID, VIDcard Bios, and NIC MAC I believe) to define a signature for a single system. Then each installation is keyed to that signature. Thus no matter how many different boot partitions you have, it's still a single signature and a single install. Because of the pain of running FSX and FS9 on the same partition (mostly due to registry issues), I know many simmers who use a separate boot config or boot partitions so that the same or different OS is booted and there is a unique OS/FS instance.Support (either in the base or as a low cost upgrade) the ability to have two or max three installations registered. I would be HAPPY to pay another 10 bucks for another license so I could have ASA installed on either two partitions, or two PCs, but paying full price for another license seems too much.For now, it's back to AS6, as the wind issue is a problem. I'm looking forward to the hotfix, as I really like what's been done in ASA for clouds and visibility, and I know the product will only get better.

[Guest Muskoka1]

I hardly ever post in any forum, but this one I couldn

[Guest Aviator4life]

"your dual boot set-up is no different than having 2 separate computers, OWNED BY 2 SEPARATE INDIVIDUALS, each buying their own single license"1) I do not feel any sort of entitlement because I have a dual boot system. Be certain of that.2) The quote above is precisely the ignorance I speak of. I assure you, I am in fact one person with one pc.I agree to disagree with anyone who thinks differently on this than I do.The fact of the matter, regardless of anyone's opinion, including MINE, is that HiFi has changed their licensing policy when you compare the license for AS6 and ASA. That is a fact.I simply find it ironic and self-contradictory, for HiFi to imply that a user can take advantage of ASA's full functionality with both FS9 and FSX with a single license. This is not true in the case of a dual boot setup on one machine. What some, and you don't understand, is that there are alternative ways to identify a single, physical, pc. I have Steam installed on both of my OS's with a single license. Not only do they support it with a single license, they also even offer to "sync" my installations so that my user profile is my user profile, no matter how many times I might switch back and forth between the two installs.There are others more intelligent than I, be sure of that. But I am never deliberately ignorant.You have a great day too "Muskoka1". I can assure you that I will. This situation with the licensing of ASA is nothing more to me than another software developer who has decided to think in a negative way about it's very own PAYING customers. The software pirates are nothing but thieves, I am not a thief and won't tolerate being treated like one, by anyone, at anytime, especially not by someone I pay money to in good faith.I agree to disagree with you and encourage you to reread my posts in order to better understand the situation. But that is up to you. Now you and anyone else that wants to can go ahead and try to convince me otherwise, I am unsubscribing from this thread and your efforts and ignorance will fall on deaf ears.Best Regards and Happy Holidays to All! :(