Md-11: 'translating' The Tutorial To A Flight Of My Own

[Guest]

I am doing a flight from EHAM to LFPG right now. I donwloaded the demo of Flighsim commander and it does help a little with choosing SIDs and STAR's: you can easily see try them out and choose the one that is right. But the problem is I can't always find the one that is right. I decided to look at the weather at LFPG (using ASA) and chose runway 9L as my arrival runway. However, my route goes from EHAM WOODY NIK BARTU LERVO NILEM to MOPIL, but there is no single STAR that connects to that route and rw 9L... I am at the other side of the city at MOPIL! Flying all the way to an appropriate STAR would make the flight almost twice as long... Very complicated... I mean, the route is normal, but what if you find out you are at the wrong side of thc airfield when you get near...?Maybe I should get FSBuild but unfortunately there is no demo... and I just bought the MD-11 and ASA...

[mburkhard 23]

I use Radar Contact which is far from perfect but it is the best I have found so far. Even Radar Contact cant tell you which rwy to expect until you are around 60nm from the airport, which for the longer stars is too close.

Guys,don't blame everything on the FSX ATC, you may blame it for a lot of things but not for everything. In reality it is very common to get the runway information while you are already flying on the STAR, lower area control will give you the STAR to fly but very often it will NOT give you the runway.What you do you make an educated guess on the runway in use (based on weather reports before departure, or weather forecast on long range flights, previous experience (normally you or your airline has landed there before) and local restrictions according time of day) and programme that into the FMS. You may programme your second educated guess into the secondary flight plan, there's a reason why that exists and it is perfectly simulated in the MD-11.Now with these two guess programmed chances are very good one is the correct one. And if it's not then by all means change it while flying the STAR. Usually changing the approach and runway does not mean you need a different STAR. Again, this happens lots of times in reality.MSFS has a 66nm limit for the range where you can receive ATIS information. Don't wait until the ATIS appears in the ATC menu, get the frequency off the chart and tune it using COM2 so you'll hear it as soon as you are within the mentioned range of the airfield. 66nm it a bit less of a range yes but it is better than nothing and paired with the educated guesses mentioned above it works most of the time. And if not, well expect the unexpected, that's why there are two pilots flying those airplanes... enjoy, reality is not always planned in advance...(to make this as real as possible you NEED to use ActiveSky with real weather, the built in FSX weather has very poor WX information and forecasts)Regards,Markus

[downscc 1,327]

<<to MOPIL, but there is no single STAR that connects to that route and rw 9L>>Yup. Preflight can take an hour sorting out all the information, just like real world flying.Once you find that the likely runway is 9L, then you work backwords from that point. Have you looked at the arrival charts? I am looking at the LFPG.txt sidstar file and note there are 17 different ways to get to runway 9L (DJL DPE DVL EPL KEPER KOVAK LATGO MATIX MMD MOPIL MOV RENSA RLP SABLE SONUR TINIL VEDUS). MOPIL is inlcuded and the procedure is:STAR MOPI4H.09B FIX MOPIL 26000 FIX XERAM 18000 FIX SOTUS FIX BS38A 14000 FIX GIMER FIX D075Y 11000 FIX SOLBA FIX VELER 11000 SPEED 250 RNW 09L RNW 09R I am not suggesting you replace charts with reading the procedure file, but it took me 2 min to find a connection for you using the procedure file. As for being on the opposite side of the airfield, that has to happen when you route is East and they are landing West or whatever.

[Guest]

Thanks. Nice idea to look into those files!!!

[Guest]

(I can't edit my post anymore, so... I'll have to add this in a reply...)I have lowered the amount of possible wind using the settings in ASA (to 20%: I don't care too much for wind) and I have had no problems with losing speed anymore.Right now I also use ASA to see the weather at the destination and that makes it a lot easier to guess the right landing runway. :( (And if I really, really need to know the exact landing runway before taking off, I simply go there FIRST, let ATA load and then listen to the ATIS, after which I can go to the departure airfield. :( Bit of a workaround but it works. Although I have to say making an educated guess feels more satisfying. :( )BTW I already did that trick with tuning to ATIS long before I got there, but for me (still being new to the MD-11) time is too short. But I am reading the FMS pdf now, so... I'll be an expert within a few days! B)

[Guest]

I know I am the only one posting here, but I just want to update the readers with my progression. ;) Maybe someone may benefit from this all in the near future.I think I finally got the idea about the STARs. I thought (because this was the fact in my first flights) that the STAR would lead me into a good position for intercepting the ILS. I was wrong. The STAR simply brings me from my route along the 'highway' into the right direction towards the airfield. So the STAR can already be entered in the flightplan during cruise or even before departure! I also thought it was mandatory to enter the STAR and the runway and the transition at the same time, but that's not true. So that's part one.Next I found out that ATIS comes on usually while flying the STAR. I had the idea ATIS was always way too late but that was because I thought I needed that info before I passed the last waypoint on my route. Well, ATIS won't come on before you pass that last waypoint (I found out the hard way) so you HAVE to enter the STAR before that! During my last flight ATIS came while I was 5 minutes away from the last waypoint in my STAR! That's not too much time, but (after practice) it's okay, I guess.After getting ATIS and still flying the STAR I have to enter the runway into the MCDU: now the approach points are added. Last problem is how to fix the disconuinity between the last point of the STAR and the approach point. I guess I should have charts and all for this, but FlightSim Commander (the free version) offers a simple though probably not too official solution. (BTW FS Commander is the PERFECT tool for choosing the right SIDs and STARs!!! It works very easy!!! And free too!) On my last flight, again to LFPG, I'd chosen a STAR that ended at VELER. I had to land on runway 9R, so I had to fly around the city. Well, after choosing the STAR in FS Commander I opened the window with the arrival, chose the right runway and then Commander gave me this information:leave Int VELER heading 258, after 43nm turn left until intercepting localizerSo I looked into the FMS manual how to handle this and discovered I could simply add the following into my plan via the MCDU:LEVER/258/+43After that I only had to clear the disconuinity between this 'homemade' waypoint and the approach point and that was it! And it worked like a charm: I had a perfect AUTOLAND! :( Well, since I don't have any contraints entered for the 'homemade' leg, I don't think this is the official way to do it, but for now it works. :( The only thing that I still haven't figured out are the transitions... but in this case I (or by doing it this way) apparently didn't need one...

[downscc 1,327]

I don't fly Europe very often, but when I have I have found that each ILS approach will usually have a transition that starts at the last fix in the STAR so it is a simple matter of connecting the STAR to the approach by selecting the appropriate approach transition. In this case, you have to use the correct approach transition. I have noticed this convenient feature at EGLL EDDF LIMC and a couple of others I can't remember the ICAO. Don't know if this is the rule or the exception, but you should look for it.That is seldom the case in the US, where most arrivals are terminated with "expect vector to final." In this case I provide custom SIDSTAR procedures for 68 locations where the "vectors" are replace with actual traffic patterns that I can observe at flightaware.com. Hope you give my procedures a try when you try your first Atlantic crossing. They are in the AVSIM library in the FS9-Flight Plans library, or do an advanced search with author=dan downs and sort by date.

[Guest]

I don't fly Europe very often, but when I have I have found that each ILS approach will usually have a transition that starts at the last fix in the STAR so it is a simple matter of connecting the STAR to the approach by selecting the appropriate approach transition. In this case, you have to use the correct approach transition. I have noticed this convenient feature at EGLL EDDF LIMC and a couple of others I can't remember the ICAO. Don't know if this is the rule or the exception, but you should look for it.

Yes, you're right: this is quite often the case. But not always: yesterday I flew to EDDP (or something like that) in Germany. There were only two STARs and both ended at KOR. But there was only one transition that started at KAS... Quite weird because both points were on opposite sides of the airfield. Anyway, I simply decided not to use a transition because KOR delivered in a good spot for the approach. I guess it's simply a matter of looking what works best in a given situation. I have to say I am beginning to like figuring out the route before taking off! And during my last flight I used the secondary flight plan on the MCDU for the first time to try out some different approaches: very easy to do! I had the PLAN view on the ND, copied the active f-plan, and experimented with it. Everytime I made a mess of it or things got complicated I simply copied the current f-plan again. :( Actually a nice way to spend the cruise! And if you have an approach setup that works nice you can keep it in the 2nd plan and activate it in case it's the one you actually need in the end. And if you need another approach, it's a lot easier to pick the right one because you've tested most already. Very handy feature!

[downscc 1,327]

You've come a long ways since your first tutorial flight. I've seen your posts in the hifi forum next door. Are you using ASA? I've read the graphics are sweet but they don't have the msfs wx engine tamed yet.

[Guest]

You've come a long ways since your first tutorial flight. I've seen your posts in the hifi forum next door. Are you using ASA? I've read the graphics are sweet but they don't have the msfs wx engine tamed yet.

Yes, and I am having a great time. B) And I've come a long ways also thanks to you and some other very helpfull people over here! :( :( :( And yes, I use ASA: bought it last weekend. The weather it produces looks nice (thanks to FEX...) but the REAL weather isn't real everytime... and to get rid of wind shifts, weird weather transitions and awfully sharp horizons you have to enable some option that makes the weather global around you, which is a pity imo because when you are flying high the weather is the same all around you. And STILL there problems with wind and the horizon still looks awfull... I have to say that up to now it isn't worth the money.... and it wasn't cheap too: it's number 3 on my list of the most expensive addons I bought. (MD-11 is number 2 B) and VFR GenX is number 1.) But it's quite new and support seems to be okay, so I am sure things will work out. AS# isn't the number one weather program for nothing, I guess!EDIT:I intended to post a longer row of applauding smiley's but this forum seems to have a limit...!