747x Airac 0813 Sid/star Procedure Nd

[pulsar21 0]

747x ver. 2.10. Airac 0813. can chose the SID but turns are displaye unsusual in the ND. It start to follow the right procedure turn but then turns in the opposite way. Expl. lszh rwy16 sid gers1s.I've tried to delete navdata and sidstars folder and reinstalled the airacs but no success. This issue appears also for STAR's.Any idea?

[pulsar21 0]

747x ver. 2.10. Airac 0813. can chose the SID but turns are displaye unsusual in the ND. It start to follow the right procedure turn but then turns in the opposite way. Expl. lszh rwy16 sid gers1s.I've tried to delete navdata and sidstars folder and reinstalled the airacs but no success. This issue appears also for STAR's.Any idea?

No one have this problem too??

[pulsar21 0]

Please how can try this and tell me if it have the same error???? Please Help!A. Pulson

[downscc 1,327]

Yes, I get the same error. She starts the left turn after 2400 towards D360B (2nm N of VOR) but then rolls out of turn to the right as if she thinks she has passed D360B and is turning towards the next fix BREGO. The SID procedure could be better written, but these are all automatically generated.You should notify Navigraph of the problem in their forum.Meanwhile, you could try to modify the procedure by the following (additions in Bold):SID GERS1S RNW 16 FIX OVERFLY KLO01 AT OR ABOVE 1816 TRK 154 UNTIL 2400 TURN LEFT DIRECT FIX OVERFLY D360B AT OR ABOVE 4000 SPEED 210 FIX BREGO AT OR ABOVE 5000 FIX ZH556 AT OR ABOVE 8000 FIX ZH557 AT OR ABOVE 9000 FIX AFOLT AT OR ABOVE 10000 FIX ARTAG FIX GERSA AT OR ABOVE 14000 I haven't tested this, if it doesn't work my next step would be to add another waypoint 1 nm before D360B to have two fixes instead of one at the airfield flyover. Adding a fix is a couple more steps. Let me know if that is needed.

[pulsar21 0]

Yes, I get the same error. She starts the left turn after 2400 towards D360B (2nm N of VOR) but then rolls out of turn to the right as if she thinks she has passed D360B and is turning towards the next fix BREGO. The SID procedure could be better written, but these are all automatically generated.You should notify Navigraph of the problem in their forum.Meanwhile, you could try to modify the procedure by the following (additions in Bold):SID GERS1S RNW 16 FIX OVERFLY KLO01 AT OR ABOVE 1816 TRK 154 UNTIL 2400 TURN LEFT DIRECT FIX OVERFLY D360B AT OR ABOVE 4000 SPEED 210 FIX BREGO AT OR ABOVE 5000 FIX ZH556 AT OR ABOVE 8000 FIX ZH557 AT OR ABOVE 9000 FIX AFOLT AT OR ABOVE 10000 FIX ARTAG FIX GERSA AT OR ABOVE 14000 I haven't tested this, if it doesn't work my next step would be to add another waypoint 1 nm before D360B to have two fixes instead of one at the airfield flyover. Adding a fix is a couple more steps. Let me know if that is needed.

Hi Danhere is what Iam fro Navigraph has answered to my issue"Hi Pulsar,I tried the GERS1S SID off Rwy 16 and whilst it initially turned left as expected it then turned right towards GERSA. This was using the distributed PMDG 747/FSX without Navigraph update. I therefore suggest you follow up with PMDG Tech support or their forum.CheersIan "I've tryed the "OVERFLY" suggestion but if the aircraft cannot overfly the fix, for some reasons, the goes in a loop.CheersArthur

[downscc 1,327]

Well, at least you contacted them... I don't think Stefan has the time to learn the PMDG quircks and provide procedures for all the products that they do. I remember the struggles he had when they added sidstars to the navigraph navdata. This is not meant to demean their efforts, just the way it is.I can help you here, but it will be a couple of hours while I am in the middle of something. I will get you a departure that works in the 747 (it seems to work okay in the 737 but there are differences between them) and I also want to test it with the MD11 (even more differences). Hopefully, you will then provide the fix to Stefan at Navigraph and they can incorporate it or make changes to their automation.

[pulsar21 0]

Well, at least you contacted them... I don't think Stefan has the time to learn the PMDG quircks and provide procedures for all the products that they do. I remember the struggles he had when they added sidstars to the navigraph navdata. This is not meant to demean their efforts, just the way it is.I can help you here, but it will be a couple of hours while I am in the middle of something. I will get you a departure that works in the 747 (it seems to work okay in the 737 but there are differences between them) and I also want to test it with the MD11 (even more differences). Hopefully, you will then provide the fix to Stefan at Navigraph and they can incorporate it or make changes to their automation.

Thanks a lot Dan. Wish you a successfull 2009.CheersArthur

[downscc 1,327]

The MD11 was happy with adding one more fix in the departure arc to force the turn to the left (this reminds me of the KSJC LOUPE departure), but I had to add a second fix to coax the 747 to come around the left side.Please pass along to the guys at navigraph.To add fixes to a procedure in this "script" language, you first add the fix definition then use the fix in the procedure. Here how it works:1. Use a text editor (not Word)2. Note that immediately after the header with location and copyright stuff is the FIXES section. I enter new fixes at the bottom of this section, about line 125 add these two lines inbetween the last fix declaration and the ENDFIXES keyword:FIX D065C COLOCATED KLO 065 3FIX D110D COLOCATED KLO 110 43. Now go to the GERS1S procedure on about line 185 and insert the two fixes (I also insert speed contraints, but you will still need to set the MCP speed in the 747 to maintain 210 max in the loop):SID GERS1S RNW 16 FIX OVERFLY KLO01 AT OR ABOVE 1816 TRK 154 UNTIL 2400 TURN LEFT DIRECT FIX D110D SPEED 210 FIX D065C SPEED 210 FIX D360B AT OR ABOVE 4000 SPEED 210 FIX BREGO AT OR ABOVE 5000 FIX ZH556 AT OR ABOVE 8000 FIX ZH557 AT OR ABOVE 9000 FIX AFOLT AT OR ABOVE 10000 FIX ARTAG FIX GERSA AT OR ABOVE 140004. Note that the OVERFLY keyword I suggested the other day didn't work and I'm not using it.This has been tested with both 747/MD11... note that the turn is supposed to start when above 2400 and these birds tend to take their time after passing 2400. The 747 finally starts the bank to the left at 3400 but she has always behaved like this (so I do use the climb until altitude method in my procedures unless I have too).You can also use a copy of my modified file attached.After looking closely at the charts for this departure I think I've spent entirely too much time on the problem. The solution really is to hand fly or use MCP controls and fly the autopilot after departure and until established on r055 heading towards BREGO. Even the RNAV version of this approach does not use ARINC424 legs to navigate the loop, and I suspect in real world it is not flown on LNAV.

[pulsar21 0]

The MD11 was happy with adding one more fix in the departure arc to force the turn to the left (this reminds me of the KSJC LOUPE departure), but I had to add a second fix to coax the 747 to come around the left side.Please pass along to the guys at navigraph.To add fixes to a procedure in this "script" language, you first add the fix definition then use the fix in the procedure. Here how it works:1. Use a text editor (not Word)2. Note that immediately after the header with location and copyright stuff is the FIXES section. I enter new fixes at the bottom of this section, about line 125 add these two lines inbetween the last fix declaration and the ENDFIXES keyword:FIX D065C COLOCATED KLO 065 3FIX D110D COLOCATED KLO 110 43. Now go to the GERS1S procedure on about line 185 and insert the two fixes (I also insert speed contraints, but you will still need to set the MCP speed in the 747 to maintain 210 max in the loop):SID GERS1S RNW 16 FIX OVERFLY KLO01 AT OR ABOVE 1816 TRK 154 UNTIL 2400 TURN LEFT DIRECT FIX D110D SPEED 210 FIX D065C SPEED 210 FIX D360B AT OR ABOVE 4000 SPEED 210 FIX BREGO AT OR ABOVE 5000 FIX ZH556 AT OR ABOVE 8000 FIX ZH557 AT OR ABOVE 9000 FIX AFOLT AT OR ABOVE 10000 FIX ARTAG FIX GERSA AT OR ABOVE 140004. Note that the OVERFLY keyword I suggested the other day didn't work and I'm not using it.This has been tested with both 747/MD11... note that the turn is supposed to start when above 2400 and these birds tend to take their time after passing 2400. The 747 finally starts the bank to the left at 3400 but she has always behaved like this (so I do use the climb until altitude method in my procedures unless I have too).You can also use a copy of my modified file attached.After looking closely at the charts for this departure I think I've spent entirely too much time on the problem. The solution really is to hand fly or use MCP controls and fly the autopilot after departure and until established on r055 heading towards BREGO. Even the RNAV version of this approach does not use ARINC424 legs to navigate the loop, and I suspect in real world it is not flown on LNAV.

Thanks a lot Dan.

[Guest nshahzad]

I'm getting same problem out of RJAA. Now won't follow any LNAV proc, or heading hold. That might be a different problem though. Too late to debug now, was hoping to hop upto cruise and leave a flight goin. Will have another look tomo. My first navdata update in a while