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Guest earendil1234

744 FMC error message: Program Error, Invalid Entry

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I was flying WSSS - WARR today.When approaching WARR, I checked the weather, active was RW28. I was thinking of practicing the circling approach. I was established on the localizer 10 and start descending with V/S mode to the circling minima. Preparing to join Right hand downwind RW28.R/W insight I made the 45 degree side step to join right hand downwind RW28. On downwind I started to feel something was not right. The frame rate is decreasing. I just hope that with the A/P on, I can manage this until established on final then disconnect it. So not much interference from my yoke.However, when I was turning preparing to join base leg, I lost the R/W I decided to commence the missed approach procedure. Climbing 2500 and proceeding direct to SABIT. Pushing the TO/GA button, I pulled up my FMC and enterred SABIT in the legs page. SH*T! It says Invalid Entry. The remaining intersection on the LEGS page was RW10 and Missed Approach Procedure RW10. I deleted the Missed Approach from ROUTE page and tried to enter SABIT again on the LEGS page, but it said Program Error then. I tried filling it from the ROUTE page, the same error message appeared. I tried filling any other intersection or VOR station hoping that I could use it for radio navigation, but it doesn't work and still gave me the Program Error message. Finally, I disengaged the A/P and left the A/T on to manage the speed, I handflied the aircraft to land visually on RW28.Could anyone help me to understand why this programming error happened? How can I avoid this in the future? If I encounter this problem again, how could I solve it?Thanks!

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Did you try to enter SABIT from the scratch pad to 1L?Is SABIT the holding fix?Was an approach programmed or what was the FMC programmed to go to?

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Did you try to enter SABIT from the scratch pad to 1L?Is SABIT the holding fix?Was an approach programmed or what was the FMC programmed to go to?
I have re-simulated some approaches again and I think I can make this a bit more systematic.- MY approach was an ILS approach on RWx, circling RWy. - I selected the ILS approach on RWx on the DEP/ARR page.- As a consequence, this brings up the MAP for ILS RWx as well. - I make a go around, and during the go around, I delete the MAP because the MAP is not for RWy, it is for RWx. That way, I delete almost everything in the LEGS page.It results in the following:- In the ROUTE page, the DEP airport changes. It is now the same as the ARR airport. - There is no way I could enter any navigation fix into the LEGS page. Line Select from the scratchpad, even a VOR results in 'program error' message.As an alternative, I was suggested to create a navigation in ROUTE 2. - I put DEP and ARR airport to be my current arrival airport (same in both fields). - I CAN enter navigation fixes into the LEGS page- Activating the ROUTE 2 and navigating using ROUTE 2 can be done.However:- With ROUTE 1 deactivated, ROUTE 1 still cannot be editted. 'Program Error' message still appears.Therefore, if now we apply the same routine (deleting the MAP, etc) at ROUTE 2 again, both will give 'Program Error' message and there is no way I can navigate.Any clue from this?

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I have re-simulated some approaches again and I think I can make this a bit more systematic.- MY approach was an ILS approach on RWx, circling RWy. - I selected the ILS approach on RWx on the DEP/ARR page.- As a consequence, this brings up the MAP for ILS RWx as well. - I make a go around, and during the go around, I delete the MAP because the MAP is not for RWy, it is for RWx. That way, I delete almost everything in the LEGS page.It results in the following:- In the ROUTE page, the DEP airport changes. It is now the same as the ARR airport. - There is no way I could enter any navigation fix into the LEGS page. Line Select from the scratchpad, even a VOR results in 'program error' message.As an alternative, I was suggested to create a navigation in ROUTE 2. - I put DEP and ARR airport to be my current arrival airport (same in both fields). - I CAN enter navigation fixes into the LEGS page- Activating the ROUTE 2 and navigating using ROUTE 2 can be done.However:- With ROUTE 1 deactivated, ROUTE 1 still cannot be editted. 'Program Error' message still appears.Therefore, if now we apply the same routine (deleting the MAP, etc) at ROUTE 2 again, both will give 'Program Error' message and there is no way I can navigate.Any clue from this?
First of all, almost everywhere in the world you should fly the missed approach for the runway you have flown your approach onto. So in this case RWYx. There are exceptions (like the Netherlands), but I don't know if you are flying in an area where an exception applies. If you do want to fly the missed approach for RWYy, I would do it with heading select myself. If you want to use Lnav you should change the arrival runway to RWYy. After the brakeoff for RWYx you can find some time for that. If you go to the DEP/ARR page and change the arrival runway to RWYy, and give it an extended centerline, you then have the correct picture in front of you (maybe you still have to line select it to the top in the legs page, and then put in the final approach course in the boxes which appear), and it shouldn't give program errors (because you aren't actually deleting anything.)That's what I think anyway ;-)Hope this helps! Tom

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First of all, almost everywhere in the world you should fly the missed approach for the runway you have flown your approach onto. So in this case RWYx. There are exceptions (like the Netherlands), but I don't know if you are flying in an area where an exception applies. If you do want to fly the missed approach for RWYy, I would do it with heading select myself. If you want to use Lnav you should change the arrival runway to RWYy. After the brakeoff for RWYx you can find some time for that. If you go to the DEP/ARR page and change the arrival runway to RWYy, and give it an extended centerline, you then have the correct picture in front of you (maybe you still have to line select it to the top in the legs page, and then put in the final approach course in the boxes which appear), and it shouldn't give program errors (because you aren't actually deleting anything.)That's what I think anyway ;-)Hope this helps! Tom
Thanks!That's true, but the same thing happen when you don't have any MAP planned.So when you approach a RW without any MAP programmed on the FMC. You are not going to be able to use the LEGS page to program again and that's so wrong...

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It's not worth much, but here are my two cents. A circling approach does not lend itself to FMS navigation, this is strickly a eyes-out-the-window maneuver. Note that VOR-A type approaches that do not have a defined runway are not included in approaches either, these are always circling approaches.If at any time during the circling maneuver you loose visual with the landing environment it should be an automatic go-around, and the missed approach is that defined by the approach plate that you started the approach with.

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I got it Dan.My go-arounds were initiated because I lost visual contact with the runway when I was on downwind. Although it's a visual approach, however the MAP is flown from the previous instrument approach flown. Therefore I need my FMS to navigate (by VOR or NDB).Now, I was suggested that the ROUTE page actually locks after the last fix is flown by, therefore cannot be modified and ROUTE 2 should be used. But in that case ROUTE 1 is still locked.Is this what has happened in my flight? How could I 'unlock' the ROUTE page?Thanks!

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Try the NAV/RAD features, put the ND in VOR mode... there might be a better way but I haven't explored this corner yet. Sounds interesting tho.

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