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Guest panos51

executing a departure

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hello pilots!I have a question regarding navigation, which might seem a bit stupid to the majority or to the experts here.I try to fly the FAKES TWO DEPARTURE here in Yakutat airport Alaska which the chart states clearly. TAKE OFF RWY 11: Climbing left turn via heading 080 (so far so good) thence, Intercept YAK VOR/DME R-095 to FAKES. OK, intercepting the R-095 is fine but what indication do I get that I reached that fix? there is no frequency only co-ordinates for FAKES. Am I missing something?Thank you in advance.Panos

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Hello,you are very right, but YAK is at least a VOR/DME and to reach FAKES intersection you need to travel 65 miles, so that's what the chart says. I am not very familiar with the NACO plates so I can't prove this is a DME distance (on Jeppesen charts you'd see a D65.0 here instead), but I think that is a good starter. First I had a look at airnav.com, but they also say FAKES is on R-095 at 65 miles, so it can't be that wrong.Jeppesen furthermore distinguishes between the classic and RNAV departures. If you have the RNAV chart you certainly know there are waypoint that you can only find using your FMS/GPS.Good luck! :(Etienne

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Hello,you are very right, but YAK is at least a VOR/DME and to reach FAKES intersection you need to travel 65 miles, so that's what the chart says. I am not very familiar with the NACO plates so I can't prove this is a DME distance (on Jeppesen charts you'd see a D65.0 here instead), but I think that is a good starter. First I had a look at airnav.com, but they also say FAKES is on R-095 at 65 miles, so it can't be that wrong.Jeppesen furthermore distinguishes between the classic and RNAV departures. If you have the RNAV chart you certainly know there are waypoint that you can only find using your FMS/GPS.Good luck! :(Etienne
NACO and JeppCharts have fairly similar symbology between them. This one does have me rather stumped though. DME fixes have a D shaped symbol around the distance number and sometimes have an arrow pointed back down the radial toward the VOR of reference. Here's an example of that: http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0901/00403HILIE.PDF

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NACO and JeppCharts have fairly similar symbology between them. This one does have me rather stumped though. DME fixes have a D shaped symbol around the distance number and sometimes have an arrow pointed back down the radial toward the VOR of reference. Here's an example of that: http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0901/00403HILIE.PDF
That is weird. Look at HILIE intersection. The distance symbol tells me it is 38 miles from MLP, because the arrow points to MLP. Now have a look at ROPES. It says 20 miles, also pointing to MLP. How can that be? Then it certainly would also not be a DME distance. I'm not quite getting the arrow thing. By the way, do you know of an online reference (legend) for the NACO charts? I'd also be very interested in a Jeppesen one but I'm afraid there simply aren't such resources available online.

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That is weird. Look at HILIE intersection. The distance symbol tells me it is 38 miles from MLP, because the arrow points to MLP. Now have a look at ROPES. It says 20 miles, also pointing to MLP. How can that be? Then it certainly would also not be a DME distance. I'm not quite getting the arrow thing. By the way, do you know of an online reference (legend) for the NACO charts? I'd also be very interested in a Jeppesen one but I'm afraid there simply aren't such resources available online.
You are looking at the arrowing wrong. The tail of the dme arrow box shows the navaid from which the distance is derived from. HILIE is 38dme from GEG, ROPES is 20dme from GEG, and the chart also shows that there is 18 miles between HILIE and ROPES. Which agrees with 20+18=38. HILIE is 43 miles from MLP.

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Which agrees with 20+18=38.
That I also figured! :( LOL Thanks for the heads-up Kev. It all makes a lot of sense. :( Still, does anyone know of some online reference?Kind regardsEtienne

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No worries John, I should engage the grey cells up there every now and then... Glad we figured it all out now! :(

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If you look at the DP you will see it lists the fix as part of the Alaska H-1 chart. This is where you will find the DME information.

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Hey there Rob,thank you so much, this is exactly the stuff I was looking for. :(RegardsEtienne

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Thank you all so much for your help! Now the next question comes :( On the same FAKES TWO DEPARTURE, after take off from Rwy11 turn 80 and fly towards FAKES intersection on 095. Why the arrow on the chart, according to U.S. TERMINAL PROCEDURES PUBLICATION that kindly Rob attached, is defined as a Departure Route - Arrival Route and not as a radial. Actually, as I see it, it is a radial of 095 from YAK VOR/DME.Thank you again.Panos

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Welcome Etienne & Panos, :-)Not really sure what you are asking now Panos... the black arrow is the Route and is defined by the 095 degree radial from Yakutat VOR/DME (well... once established), and I guess technically, underlies J541 until you reach FL180. You make a climbling Left Turn to 080, intercept and fly the 095 degree radial and cross FAKES (65nm DME) at or above FL180 (as it says in the Route Description btw :( ).

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Welcome Etienne & Panos, :-)Not really sure what you are asking now Panos... the black arrow is the Route and is defined by the 095 degree radial from Yakutat VOR/DME (well... once established), and I guess technically, underlies J541 until you reach FL180. You make a climbling Left Turn to 080, intercept and fly the 095 degree radial and cross FAKES (65nm DME) at or above FL180 (as it says in the Route Description btw :( ).
The simple answer is that the bold arrows indicate the flight path, whether it be a radial or not. If it's not a bold arrow, it indicates a radial that is not part of the flight path, such as the ones on the HILIE chart that are used to determine the intersections without DME.

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