Default ATC and top of descent?

[Guest robfather]

I've been flying the PMDG 737 for a couple of years and have found that the ToD is usually pretty near the ATC call for descent. Sometimes I have had to use speedbrakes (that's what they're for as well as landing) but most times it works with a descent rate of between 2000 and 2500 ft min. Perhaps you should check if you're overspeeding on the descent. IAS is important on the descent. Also you have the oprtion of requesting a lower altitude from ATC at any time in the flight. So perhaps you can manage the descent using ATC and asking for different altitude levels.Rob

[Orlaam 306]

It all depends on the situation and aircraft. Sometimes you can work with MS ATC, other times you get screwed.I just completed a flight into KLCK in the MD-11F and asked for a lower altitude to coincide with my descent profile. After getting cleared down to 15,000 and riding there a bit, ATC asked me to climb to FL270. :( I was above my "Profile", aka vertical path, based on the downwind approach and IAP selection in the FMS, so I decied to play ball just to see where ATC was putting me. I started a +1000 FPM climb and waited. Just as I suspected, at about FL200, I was cleared down to 13,000. :( Stupid. I ended up having to enter a hold at my IAF to lose what I needed to slow down and be on target for the G/S. I had to do it this way because KLCK is in snow right now. Otherwise you can just fly VFR with or without a flight following and request a landing once close to the field.Interestingly, last night I flew into SFO requesting the MENLO transition approaching from the south inline with my STAR. I was fine with ATC's descent intructions and had a perfect descent into SFO.The problem is that MS ATC leaves you too high about 50% of the time when requesting the built in transitions and the vectors method usually sucks. You can request lower as Ed mentioned and I remarked about above, however; you will often be told to climb even when no mountians exist. MS ATC insists you follow their descent path and will keep barking if you deviate. Sometimes you have no chocie but to ignore ATC and just descend, which I do a lot. You can avoid the barking orders to climb by not switching to a new frequency and waiting to contact just prior to your IAF, that way ATC will give you your clearance to final and the tower handoff.I have Radar Contact 4.3, but I found it will leave you too high as well, especially when trying to use the IAP method. It isn't a smooth transition. Example (going from memory), I flew into KSLC in a 737-800 from northern California and followed the descent intructions down to 13,000. RC4 didn't have the option to fly an IAP until a point in which either IAF where too far IMO off course, so it made for a poor lateral track. The part that made this bad though was that I wasn't cleared down to 9000 or 10,000 feet soon enough to slow down and meet my restrictions. The 737 doesn't slow at all without leveling out, and RC4 just didn't give me time to do that. I remember doing this flight several times and trying to work on getting around it, but it was not easy. I know I've been told about the NOTAM method, however it's just not realistic or reliable that way. Flights into KLAS using NOTAMs often left me too high too. RC4 just requires too many odd work-arounds and doesn't allow for smooth transitions from FP to STAR to IAP. Using vectors in RC4 will also leave one too far from the ILS and/or high as well. I know the RC4 team doesn't agree with me, but I've suggested solutions with resistance. I can think of nearly every way to make RC perfect for almost all users and realistic as it needs to be, but I'm in the minority I guess. I also tried PFE, but it was odd in how it dealt with things in the beginning, so I haven't tried it again. I returned it via Flight1 or I'd reinstall and apply the updates.

[ronzie 21]

RC4 doesn't vector you or offer IAP outside of the approach area of about 40 nm out. Be sure you build the STAR waypoints into your flight plan and it most cases it should be smooth getting to your IAF.

[Guest XQ-NUE]

The Answer about the wuestion when ATC beginns to advice you for descent:As soon as you are able to recive the ATIS of the final airport the ATC gives you the TOD advice. So as long as you do not recive the ATIS Message of your landing airport you will get no advice to descent. But immediately after you are in ATIS Range you get the advice,

[vololiberista 205]

One thing that fs9 ATC DOES NOT DO :( Which should be done!!! is to give speed advisories.I don't know if PFE or RC do it, if not they should!!So for your initial descent from above FL240 reduce to mach 0.64 set up you initial descent for 1500FPMBelow FL240 use the ASI and set 280knts.As you approach your next altitude step increase your rate of descent to 2000FPM (having already set the cabin seat belt sign to on!!!)Below 10,000ft or FL100 you must be at 250ktsat 30nm out from the field reduce to 210ktsat 15nm redue to 180 or 170kts depending on trafficThis formula allows for a continuous descent which is the normal practice.Vololiberista

[Guest lgvpilot1]

One thing that fs9 ATC DOES NOT DO :( Which should be done!!! is to give speed advisories.I don't know if PFE or RC do it, if not they should!!So for your initial descent from above FL240 reduce to mach 0.64 set up you initial descent for 1500FPMBelow FL240 use the ASI and set 280knts.As you approach your next altitude step increase your rate of descent to 2000FPM (having already set the cabin seat belt sign to on!!!)Below 10,000ft or FL100 you must be at 250ktsat 30nm out from the field reduce to 210ktsat 15nm redue to 180 or 170kts depending on trafficThis formula allows for a continuous descent which is the normal practice.Vololiberista

I have to say I am no great fan of the default ATC , but when you consider how it was originally intended to be used and then take into account all the extra Aircraft , callsigns , weather , modified AFCADS and so on that we all add , Its quite amazing the whole thing does not CTD with every flight .There are more options than vectors to final , take a look at Edetroit's videos ,and see how you can use the default ATC to its fullestMark