Derate for MD11, a possible solution?

[timers15 11]

Hey, I'm going crazy with full thrust takeoffs or guessing Temps.I could create a UTOPIA config file if I had a chart that gives minimum runway distance for a given weight,temp and flap.I did this for the Tinmouse using FAA runway length requirements and it worked pretty good.Anybody have a chart like this?Otherwise I'm going to have to make it using the analyzer tool and basically spend a whole weekend in front of the computer ...But you know, sometimes it has to be done! :)

[Mace 1,902]

Hey, I'm going crazy with full thrust takeoffs or guessing Temps.I could create a UTOPIA config file if I had a chart that gives minimum runway distance for a given weight,temp and flap.I did this for the Tinmouse using FAA runway length requirements and it worked pretty good.Anybody have a chart like this?Otherwise I'm going to have to make it using the analyzer tool and basically spend a whole weekend in front of the computer ...But you know, sometimes it has to be done! :)

googling md-11 gets you this site:http://www.md-11.org/history.htmlscroll to bottom of page. Select "Takeoff" button and you get a PDF chart of takeoff perf. Also there are other charts there too.

[philbrown 9]

I've already made a UTOPIA derate file for the GE MD11 for weights between about 75 to 100% of max take off weight, if anyone wants me to upload that.

[stevenp 1]

I've already made a UTOPIA derate file for the GE MD11 for weights between about 75 to 100% of max take off weight, if anyone wants me to upload that.

Please I would love to use it.

[philbrown 9]

I've attached my MD11 UTOPIA derate file to this post. There are a couple of points to note though;1) This file is only for the GE engine variant of the MD11. I haven't made a file for the PW version.2) I've only used flap 15 and 25 for takeoff. The way UTOPIA works, I don't think it would be able to perform optimum flap takeoff calculations. Plus I didn't fancy making the 360-odd takeoffs needed to get that data!Feel free to add other flap settings if required or modify the data as required.In order to upload the file to AVSIM, I've had to add .txt to the end of the filename. This will need deleting, so the file extension becomes .tod.

[timers15 11]

I've attached my MD11 UTOPIA derate file to this post. There are a couple of points to note though;1) This file is only for the GE engine variant of the MD11. I haven't made a file for the PW version.2) I've only used flap 15 and 25 for takeoff. The way UTOPIA works, I don't think it would be able to perform optimum flap takeoff calculations. Plus I didn't fancy making the 360-odd takeoffs needed to get that data!Feel free to add other flap settings if required or modify the data as required.In order to upload the file to AVSIM, I've had to add .txt to the end of the filename. This will need deleting, so the file extension becomes .tod.

This is a good start. If I can add to this I'll post back.Don't want to jinx anything, but I'm hoping to get several dial-a-flap settings too.- Tim (I tried to sign my first post but no edit button ?)

[timers15 11]

googling md-11 gets you this site:http://www.md-11.org/history.htmlscroll to bottom of page. Select "Takeoff" button and you get a PDF chart of takeoff perf. Also there are other charts there too.

Excellent Mace. This is the same stuff I used for the Tinmouse.Unfortunately, no flap reference is made I'm guessing it uses the max flap.However, I should be able to work out a very detailed flap 25 .tod file.Assuming the PMDG MD11 is close to the numbers. :)Tim.

[philbrown 9]

Don't want to jinx anything, but I'm hoping to get several dial-a-flap settings too.

I don't know if UTOPIA can do this. It will want to take you off at flaps 10 at full thrust rather than flaps 20 with some amount of derate, which I think goes against the idea of dial-a-flap. But I'm hoping I'm wrong!!

[timers15 11]

I don't know if UTOPIA can do this. It will want to take you off at flaps 10 at full thrust rather than flaps 20 with some amount of derate, which I think goes against the idea of dial-a-flap. But I'm hoping I'm wrong!!

Unfortunately flap information isn't on the chart. However, I'll settle for always flap 25 with a flex temp takeoff.Since the chart simply gives runway length required I'm going to guess they mean flap 25, which yields (?) the shortest required runway. Flap 25 is the MD11's max takeoff flap, right?Ok, I'll try this when I get home.Tim

[philbrown 9]

I think I may have misunderstood you're first post. Just to clarify, I was refering to UTOPIA's inability to manage optimum flap takeoffs using dial-a-flap, although you didn't actually mention optimum flap, just dial-a-flap. I should've read it a bit more thoroughly! :( Of course there's no reason why UTOPIA won't work with a few set flap settings using the dial-a-flap. For example, I used 15 and 25.

[stevenp 1]

I've attached my MD11 UTOPIA derate file to this post. There are a couple of points to note though;1) This file is only for the GE engine variant of the MD11. I haven't made a file for the PW version.2) I've only used flap 15 and 25 for takeoff. The way UTOPIA works, I don't think it would be able to perform optimum flap takeoff calculations. Plus I didn't fancy making the 360-odd takeoffs needed to get that data!Feel free to add other flap settings if required or modify the data as required.In order to upload the file to AVSIM, I've had to add .txt to the end of the filename. This will need deleting, so the file extension becomes .tod.

How does it work?

[timers15 11]

Well......I'm getting reasonable numbers out of UTOPIA after creating a .tod based on the MD11 runway length requirements chart.Since UTOPIA fudges and I'm sure the FAA fudges I applied counter-fudge. I adjusted the weights up by a factor of 1.15.My first test was a rocket off by the single white line (that's like a third of the runway???)I was going to post a lengthy post when I realized 480,000 pounds with a derate of 35 (UTOPIA) would still only be a 7000 foot runway.33L @ KBWI is 9501 so yeah, maybe it was close to right.I guess I have to try some more takeoffs. Just in case anybody else wants a go:(I know the times in the 4th column are wrong, I *believe* that's ok)Tim// PMDG MD11MinDr=15MaxDr=70MaxFlap=25[Engine Full][Flap 25]0,254500,7000,10,281750,8000,20,299000,9000,30,316250,10000,44000,241500,7000,14000,253000,8000,24000,270250,9000,34000,285200,10000,44000,293250,11000,54000,310500,12000,68000,207000,8000,18000,239200,9000,28000,253000,10000,38000,264500,11000,48000,271400,12000,58000,279450,13000,6

[zachenbacher 0]

Hi guys,I'm a little bit hopeless concerning the publishing of official MD-11 perfomance data by PMDG, TOPCAT or anybody else.So maybe we could organize a concerted collection of data for UTOPIA. I know this empiric way is far away from reality, but it's better than nothing.What do you think about it?Denis

[FLEX1978 373]

If we could get things organized I would be more then willing to help..Rob

[Guest andi_edds]

To get things rolling i made a set of takeoffs for Flaps 22, here is the data:

// PMDG MD11MinDr=15MaxDr=70MaxFlap=50[Engine Full][Flap 22]0,123026,1923,180,166916,3017,240,216066,4170,320,286200,7785,504000,123043,2311,204000,166905,3449,284000,216066,5607,404000,286842,9568,608000,123018,2666,228000,166907,4369,338000,216038,6887,468000,286817,13651,7612000,123042,3564,2912000,166911,5631,4112000,216062,9601,6012000,286747,20236,101

I have this data in a single file and added to the first one posted here. So i am able to make comparisons between thesecalculations.Hope this helps :(