Trim settings on take-off changed with new version

[Guest sunbear]

I also have a rocket takeoff in FS9. To follow the FD bars I have to push my yoke.But since I'm not a real life MD-11 captain and I heard this bird is a rocket, I thought it is normal.Now I just don't know.Best regards,Rafal

I also have a rocket takeoff in FS9. To follow the FD bars I have to push my yoke.But since I'm not a real life MD-11 captain and I heard this bird is a rocket, I thought it is normal.Now I just don't know.Best regards,Rafal

Cudley1956 quotes: "Sure it'll ne looed into though, probably just a tweak required, ok before the patch, so no big deal." I'm not understanding this or am I to assume that the trim anomaly was ok before the patch, but NOT OK after the patch !!!!!Would someone from the PMDG team care to respond to this supposed anomaly???Much appreciated as I am a little confused over this very important systems issue...Regards again,jack

[sgreen91 182]

One of the beta members (downsc) responded to my post and stated he never has had to push the nose down on takeoff so I take it I or we are doing something incorrectly. I will continue to practice takeoffs until I find my issue. I even bought a new controller just to do away with it being my old controller but to no avail.Thanks,Sean Green

[VIPERGTSR01 22]

I never need to push the nose down but I do need to be very careful pulling the plane up on rotation, at V1 the plane already wants to lift off on it's own since the patch. Before the patch the aircraft felt normal.Jay V

[mfrantz 45]

Can you confirm that this occurs after the update to both the FSX and FS9 versions?I am especially interested to hear if it applies to the FSX version. Please confirm that if you are absolutely sure ("I think it might be a bit different.." won't help).

[VIPERGTSR01 22]

Can you confirm that this occurs after the update to both the FSX and FS9 versions?I am especially interested to hear if it applies to the FSX version. Please confirm that if you are absolutely sure ("I think it might be a bit different.." won't help).

Definitely applies to me with the FSX version (I don't have FS9 version) after the SP1 update, take off behaviour is much different as I stated in my last few posts in this thread. If you would like me to do any testing or screen shots just ask :)Jay V

[Andydigital 93]

The FSX version is definitely suffering from this problem, and the STAB readings are now exactly double what they were before. I remember the STAB reading from a regular flight I used early on with the same payload and fuel weight. The reading used to be 3.8 and now in the new version it is 7.6 and she takes off like a rocket compared to the way she used to do. The first time I tried the new version I rotated the exact same way as previous on many flights and I ended up having to input an appreciable amount of forward pressure on the stick to keep the FD centred.

[mfrantz 45]

The FSX version is definitely suffering from this problem, and the STAB readings are now exactly double what they were before. I remember the STAB reading from a regular flight I used early on with the same payload and fuel weight. The reading used to be 3.8 and now in the new version it is 7.6 and she takes off like a rocket compared to the way she used to do. The first time I tried the new version I rotated the exact same way as previous on many flights and I ended up having to input an appreciable amount of forward pressure on the stick to keep the FD centred.

Andy,STAB reading (I assume you mean on the TAKE OFF MCDU page) does not depend on payload and fuel weight. It depends only on flaps setting (as entered in the TAKE-OFF page) and TOCG (take-off center of gravity). TOCG will be lower (more forward CG) after the update, because of the way the load manager is now doing the payload distribution when you press the 1/3, 2/3 or random buttons (actually it is the ZFWCG that is lower and this makes the TOCG also lower). Still this is no reason for the situation you describe to occur. With a more forward CG a higher STAB TRIM is indeed required and the aircraft should behave equally well. We will investigate this further.

[Andydigital 93]

I use 22 degrees flap exclusively along with the same seating arrangement and always fully loaded passengers and cargo, just for your further information.

[VIPERGTSR01 22]

My guess is (and could be completely wrong), since the update with the same load used in the load manager (not using H distrib) the aircraft is almost 20 tons heavier, full load prior SP1 roughly 177tons, 194 tons after (ZFW). The V speeds have increased with the added ZFW though it appears to me the plane still 'feels' like it physically is the 177tons ZFW but is configured for a takeoff of 194 ZFW.Jay V

[KCA9304 0]

Can you confirm that this occurs after the update to both the FSX and FS9 versions?I am especially interested to hear if it applies to the FSX version. Please confirm that if you are absolutely sure ("I think it might be a bit different.." won't help).

Michael,FSX version 51:During the first T/O segment (about to 1500ft, maybe higher, not sure) LSAS AutoTrim is not available anymore with the 'new' STAB settings.If rotating to a wrong pitch attitude on purpose, correction by applying a pitch correction does only help temporarily, as the stabilizer is not retrimmed.Think the Stab. angle and required Elevator commands are mis-aligned by more than 5 degrees.Have to recheck the FS9 version to be sure it's the same there.Thanks for investigating, hope this helps.Regards,Harry

[KCA9304 0]

Michael,FSX version 51:During the first T/O segment (about to 1500ft, maybe higher, not sure) LSAS AutoTrim is not available anymore with the 'new' STAB settings.If rotating to a wrong pitch attitude on purpose, correction by applying a pitch correction does only help temporarily, as the stabilizer is not retrimmed.Think the Stab. angle and required Elevator commands are mis-aligned by more than 5 degrees.Have to recheck the FS9 version to be sure it's the same there.Thanks for investigating, hope this helps.Regards,Harry

EDIT: LSAS AutoTrim not working from lift-off till 1000 FT RA.

[Cuddly1956 1]

Andy,STAB reading (I assume you mean on the TAKE OFF MCDU page) does not depend on payload and fuel weight. It depends only on flaps setting (as entered in the TAKE-OFF page) and TOCG (take-off center of gravity). TOCG will be lower (more forward CG) after the update, because of the way the load manager is now doing the payload distribution when you press the 1/3, 2/3 or random buttons (actually it is the ZFWCG that is lower and this makes the TOCG also lower). Still this is no reason for the situation you describe to occur. With a more forward CG a higher STAB TRIM is indeed required and the aircraft should behave equally well. We will investigate this further.

Thing is Michael it might even be us :( as all we have to compare is how the MD11X reacted at takeoff before the patch. We assumed how it flew prior to the patch was how it was meant to fly... now with the patch, if you rotate the same as before to the flight director bars it overshoots them quite severely.This, of course, maybe how it's meant to be and not like it was before... how should we know lol. We can adapt how we fly it anyway and it's still a brilliant piece of work.John Ellison

[Andydigital 93]

If you left it long enough the MD-11X would probably take-off on its own the way it is now and I'm sure that is wrong.

[tcas_climb 45]

Guys, i dont know how many of you tried this but it worked out for me, http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=241003

[downscc 1,327]

I've only tested one scenario, heavy load forward cg (ZFWCG 13.2 TOCG 17.7 Flaps 22) but I found if I trim to the left side of the green band, about 0.5 below recommended STAB (use 8.2 instead of 8.7 ANU), the initial climb pitch and FD command bars will line right up with each other after a couple of hundred feet above ground (<400 so when autoflight is engaged there's no correction). I'm pretty sure the developers are exploring this issue, so hopefully it gets resolved soon. My test may not be representative of all balance/flap combinations.