Md11-No Spoilers or Autobrakes?

[Guest Totalbeginner]

I posted this question in another topic, but now I've found out the problem I'd like to see if others are having the same issue?This only seems to apply to the MD11-FSX update...According to the list of amendments, the flight idle was increased when slats are extended. This has improved handling and made a descent in idle clamp much more realistic.Now, the problem I have is that it inhibits the autobrakes and the spoilers. Retarding the throttles only brings them back to flight idle. Upon touch-down the spoilers deploy and then immediately retract because the throttles aren't at the idle stop. The autobrakes don't work either, even if you re-deploy the spoilers, because the throttles aren't at idle.Try it...Lower the landing gear, once you have 3 greens arm the spoilers and select an autobrake setting. Upon landing DO NOT select reverse thrust! Do the spoilers deploy? Do the autobrakes work?Looking forward to some answers to this problem!Martin Neep

[mfrantz 45]

I posted this question in another topic, but now I've found out the problem I'd like to see if others are having the same issue?This only seems to apply to the MD11-FSX update...According to the list of amendments, the flight idle was increased when slats are extended. This has improved handling and made a descent in idle clamp much more realistic.Now, the problem I have is that it inhibits the autobrakes and the spoilers. Retarding the throttles only brings them back to flight idle. Upon touch-down the spoilers deploy and then immediately retract because the throttles aren't at the idle stop. The autobrakes don't work either, even if you re-deploy the spoilers, because the throttles aren't at idle.Try it...Lower the landing gear, once you have 3 greens arm the spoilers and select an autobrake setting. Upon landing DO NOT select reverse thrust! Do the spoilers deploy? Do the autobrakes work?Looking forward to some answers to this problem!Martin Neep

Martin, This never happens to me and has not been reported by any of our beta testers (before or after the update), so it is definately a problem that has to do with your operation/configuration.The "approach idle" has nothing to do with that. It is never applyied on the ground.If ATS is engaged at the time of landing it will go into retard mode and throtlles will be brought back to full idle in all cases (autoland or not). ATS will remane engaged at retard mode until reverse thrust is applied (or ATS is manually disengaged).If ATS is not engaged at the time of landing it is up to you to set throttles to idle. In case ATS is engaged you shouldn't have a problem since ATS will ensure full idle. That is if you have not set the joystic connectivity options in the PMDG menu to "always override", in which case your throttle control position will override the ATS commanded idle. And also be aware that at least a minimum FMS set up must exist (origin/destination & crz level entries) and at least slats extended so that flight phases are properly recognized and retard mode is engaged. If any of the above conditions pass control to your throttle axis ("override option" or landing with the ATS disengaged or FMS not properly set) then your problem is related to throttle axis calibration. It is quite possible that even with your throttle lever physically moved to idle a non-idle position is transmitted to the sim. Besides a proper calibration, pressing the F1 key will also correct this issue (unless the control is constantly sending some "noise" that will move it again away from the idle position set by F1).

[Guest Totalbeginner]

Hi Michael!Thanks alot for your help on this one. I'm gonig to do a few tests and then post back with my findings. I've got some things to try now.Regards,Martin Neep

[Guest Totalbeginner]

Ok, I've spent all evening doing some tests and these are my findings...I flew a normal approach with my CH yoke. Upon touch down I hear the spoiler handle click twice, spoilers up then straight back down. Co pilot says "no spoilers". Autobrakes do not deploy and aircraft sails off the end of the runway. NO Reverse was selected!To rule out the possibility of a calibration issue, I un-plugged my CH yoke and flew an approach using the keyboard.At 30 feet I hit F1 to retard the throttles. Looking at the engine guages, N1 spooled down to approx 32%. Upon touch-down, again no spoilers. With both wheels on the ground, I hit F1 again, this time the N1 spools down to 28%, the spoilers deploy and ABS begin to work.I've repeated this a number of times with the same result. There is something stopping the throttles from coming all the way back to idle in-flight. This leads me to believe that there is a flight-idle limit which rather than holding the N1 at a higher figure, is physically changing the idle position of the thrust levers.I stand by my original theory. The only reason I can think of that nobody else has noticed this, is because they are selecting R/T upon touch-down, which of course immediately forces the Thrust levers to idle and beyond.Regards,Martin Neep

[mfrantz 45]

Ok, I've spent all evening doing some tests and these are my findings...I flew a normal approach with my CH yoke. Upon touch down I hear the spoiler handle click twice, spoilers up then straight back down. Co pilot says "no spoilers". Autobrakes do not deploy and aircraft sails off the end of the runway. NO Reverse was selected!To rule out the possibility of a calibration issue, I un-plugged my CH yoke and flew an approach using the keyboard.At 30 feet I hit F1 to retard the throttles. Looking at the engine guages, N1 spooled down to approx 32%. Upon touch-down, again no spoilers. With both wheels on the ground, I hit F1 again, this time the N1 spools down to 28%, the spoilers deploy and ABS begin to work.I've repeated this a number of times with the same result. There is something stopping the throttles from coming all the way back to idle in-flight. This leads me to believe that there is a flight-idle limit which rather than holding the N1 at a higher figure, is physically changing the idle position of the thrust levers.I stand by my original theory. The only reason I can think of that nobody else has noticed this, is because they are selecting R/T upon touch-down, which of course immediately forces the Thrust levers to idle and beyond.Regards,Martin Neep

Martin,- Are you landing with ATS engaged? - ILS or visual approach? - In case of ILS is it an autoland (dual/single) or APPR ONLY landing? - Do you see "RETARD" on the PFD FMA at touch down? - Is the FMS set up properly (at least origin/destination and crz level entered)?

[Guest Totalbeginner]

This problem does not exist when performing an autoland. The reason is because once the ATS goes into retard mode, it commands idle CONTINUOUSLY. So as soon as the main wheels touch down, the throttles jump from flight idle to ground idle and the spoilers and autobrakes work normally.This problem is only apparent when flying a manual approach, I'll try to explain the reason in more detail.Earlier you said that the flight idle is not an issue because it is removed once the aircraft is on the ground. BUT, when you retard the T/L during the flare, you do this in the air! Once you retard your throttle controller, it DOES NOT transmit a continuous idle command, and so the throttles remain at the last position (flight idle). It's like when you're flying an approach and disconnect the ATS. If your controller throttle position is at idle, the aircraft's throttles don't immediately jump to idle, they remain at the last position that the ATS commanded them to. The aircraft's throttles and your contollers throttles do not sync until you move your controllers throttle forward!The same thing is happening during a manual landing. You command IDLE at 20 feet, which until the main wheels touch down is "flight idle (roughly 38% N1) despite your controllers throttle being at idle, you can't physically retard the aircraft's throttles any further! After main wheel touch down, the throttles remain at this position unless you press F1 to get ground idle, or you move the throttles on your controller forward and then aft to re-affirm the new position. The same behaviour exists with my controller unplugged and flying with the keyboard. This IS NOT a calibration issue.I know I am right here, because if you hold down the F1 key continously from say 30ft RA, you get spoilers and ABS every time without fail.Obviously if you select Reverse, this has the same effect as holding F1 continuously.1) Are you landing with ATS engaged? - NO2) ILS or Visual? - ILS3) In case of ILS is it an autoland (dual/single) or APPR ONLY landing? - Dual land up until the A/P is disconnected.4) Is the FMS set up properly (at least origin/destination and crz level entered)? - YESI really think this is worth investigating, because I believe it could be the key to the inconsistencies that people are reporting with the ABS.

[mfrantz 45]

1) Are you landing with ATS engaged? - NO

Martin, Sometimes a very simple answer, makes all the difference in understanding an issue a user reports. I know now what to check and I think you have a point about the "approach idle" interferring. The reason that most users don't have this issue is because in most cases landing is done with with ATS engaged.

[Guest Totalbeginner]

Martin, Sometimes a very simple answer, makes all the difference in understanding an issue a user reports. I know now what to check and I think you have a point about the "approach idle" interferring. The reason that most users don't have this issue is because in most cases landing is done with with ATS engaged.

Yes, I guess that is probably true.

[de Lattre WGA 0]

Yes, I guess that is probably true.

Good afternoon,I made the test yesterday. Landing with ATHR ON will trigger the speed brakes and the autobrake system. Manualy landing the bird will not trigger the mentioned system even if correctly set up. This with FS9.1 and XP SP3. Have not tested with FSX.Cyrille de Lattre

[Guest Alias]

And that's exactly what I meant in the other topic open by me...said with better words :(

[Guest JaredA]

What is interesting is I use the CH flightsim yoke too and I don't see this at all, I'll shoot only manual landings unless weather dictates autoland.

[Guest Totalbeginner]

What is interesting is I use the CH flightsim yoke too and I don't see this at all, I'll shoot only manual landings unless weather dictates autoland.

It could be that your throttle is calibrated in such a way that it is transmitting a signal continously when at idle. I only wish I could get mine to do the same :(