SIDS/STARS and Holding

[Lukemeister 0]

Hi guys,I have ticked in RC options Hold all the time. Now as I understand this, in the real world, you program a hold path over a waypoint into the FMC until the runway is free.How do I recreate this within RC? Is it possible to have alot of planes waiting for a busy airport (eg Heathrow)? Can someone instruct me how to do this, or get as close to this, as possible?Also,Does my SID/STAR have to be programmed into the route before I load the route into RC? How does it recognise a SID/STAR without giving vectors? The reaon I ask this is because the only way to input SIDS/STARS into the FMC with the Wilco Airbus is to input them after loading the flight plan.Basically, how do I set up RC to make it the most realistic for UK commercial airliner operation?Thanks :(

[jd 57]

Hi guys,I have ticked in RC options Hold all the time. Now as I understand this, in the real world, you program a hold path over a waypoint into the FMC until the runway is free.How do I recreate this within RC? Is it possible to have alot of planes waiting for a busy airport (eg Heathrow)? Can someone instruct me how to do this, or get as close to this, as possible?Also,Does my SID/STAR have to be programmed into the route before I load the route into RC? How does it recognise a SID/STAR without giving vectors? The reaon I ask this is because the only way to input SIDS/STARS into the FMC with the Wilco Airbus is to input them after loading the flight plan.Basically, how do I set up RC to make it the most realistic for UK commercial airliner operation?Thanks :(

the manual provides pretty much a step by step guide on how to do sids, stars, and holding. with holding, you have to fly a holding pattern per the controllers instructions. sids/starts are entered into the .pln, and then loaded into rc. jd

[Lukemeister 0]

Thanks jd, but surely, if I have selected hold all the time, the controller should surely hold me? He hasn't on my previous flight. One other thing perhaps you can answer me,When flying to Frankfurt main (using scenery by Aerosoft) when approximately 50/40 miles out, the controller sends me on a course that is the opposite of my current flight plan. IE: he sends me back the way I came!I thought this may be a holding pattern, however after ten minutes it seems the controller completely forgot about me!

[ronzie 21]

It is best to use a flight planning application with a SID/STAR database. You then build your plan. If you have a runway specific SID or STAR edit the created waypoints to include only waypoints common to your expected runways so RC can choose the best runway (AI action takes priority followed by a selection criteria). You can then export to FS9 or FSX format for RC and other FS applications such as weather, and export to your FMC format. This keeps every thing in sync. When you get into the approach zone you can take vectors using your MCP or opt for using an IAP to do your own navigation (under your FMC guidance) to get onto final at which point you'll hear from RC again.If your planner does not have the SID or STAR of interest, you can place the waypoints you require into it from charts.As jd stated, check out the RC manual for further guidance.

[ronzie 21]

If you missed your crossing restriction you will get and keep receiving delay vectors until you are at the commanded altitude. Also insure you read about transition altitudes and levels. In that area of Germany you will probably be above the transition altitude and you were commanded to a flight level around FL120 which means 12000 feet at standard pressure. Standard pressure means you keep the altimeter pressure at 29.92 in. or 1013 mb. If you do not do this you will be at the incorrect altitude expected of you. If RC commands you to a flight level, use standard pressure. If RC commands you in feet use local surface pressure. You can not use the B key in FS to set pressure when outside of the US areas because it is hard coded for a transition altitude 18,000 feet which is incorrect for much of the world.

Thanks jd, but surely, if I have selected hold all the time, the controller should surely hold me? He hasn't on my previous flight. One other thing perhaps you can answer me,When flying to Frankfurt main (using scenery by Aerosoft) when approximately 50/40 miles out, the controller sends me on a course that is the opposite of my current flight plan. IE: he sends me back the way I came!I thought this may be a holding pattern, however after ten minutes it seems the controller completely forgot about me!

[jd 57]

Thanks jd, but surely, if I have selected hold all the time, the controller should surely hold me? He hasn't on my previous flight. One other thing perhaps you can answer me,When flying to Frankfurt main (using scenery by Aerosoft) when approximately 50/40 miles out, the controller sends me on a course that is the opposite of my current flight plan. IE: he sends me back the way I came!I thought this may be a holding pattern, however after ten minutes it seems the controller completely forgot about me!

1) do you have a vor as your last checkpoint? is it within 5 miles of the arrival airport? if not, you will never be held2) do you recall the controller saying something like "you missed your crossing restriction"? what is the transition level at frankfurt? what was your altimeter set to? what was your crossing restriction altitude?jd

[PeteP 2]

... the controller sends me on a course that is the opposite of my current flight plan. IE: he sends me back the way I came!

If the controller turns you 90 degrees off track, then you probably have missed your crossing restriction as both jd and Ron have suggested. However, if the controller really has turned you back the way you came, i.e. through 180 degrees, then you've missed a checkpoint. This very easy to confirm - RC shows the 'active' waypoint and its bearing and distance from your aircraft in the top line of the FSUIPC window. This should match the active waypoint in your FMC. If it doesn't and the RC window shows the waypoint bearing to be a reciprocal of your track and the distance to go is increasing, then you've passed the waypoint without RC giving you credit for it. It's necessary to pass within 2nm of a waypoint in the departure phase and 5nm in the en-route phase to be given credit for it. Being outside these parameters is the usual reason for missing a waypoint but, under certain circumstances, especially if you're using time acceleration, it's possible for RC to miss you passing a waypoint even when you're within the required distance so keep cross-checking that the next RC waypoint is the same as that in your FMC.If it does happen, you can follow the controller's instructions and return to the waypoint to get it credited before resuming course but a workaround to avoid this is to request direct to the next (or another future) checkpoint on the route - the manual will tell you how to do this.Pete

[ronzie 21]

In RC4 if you have not acknowledged an ATC communication and you pass through a waypoint to be credited you may not get that credit. Be sure to promptly acknowledge any commands before getting too near a point to be credited. A look at the RC menu should not show an ack command as you get near the waypoint in the top status area of the RC window.

[Lukemeister 0]

Thanks guys. I've definatley done everything by the book when approaching Frankfurt. I guess it must just be an FS glitch.In regards to the hold, i've got it working now, thanks guys. One last question, is it normal to receive vectors on hold from ATC instead of having a booked holding route IRL?

[jd 57]

Thanks guys. I've definatley done everything by the book when approaching Frankfurt. I guess it must just be an FS glitch.In regards to the hold, i've got it working now, thanks guys. One last question, is it normal to receive vectors on hold from ATC instead of having a booked holding route IRL?

if the rc co-pilot has the comms, or has the plane, you will always get vectors. if you want to fly a holding pattern, make sure you have the comms and the plane around 72 miles from the arrival airportjd