Can't use Google? Really? Maybe MapTiler/gdaltiles?

[Guest cbuchner1]

This is what I don't understand. There is money to be made here. Why hasn't Christian or someone else got it together with a provider to make a commercial product available, and, as the writer makes note of, a monthly access fee.

You can license the LandSat imagery (full world coverage) processed to TrueColor in 11m resolution for $150,000.That's awesome 11m per pixel, guys! It's a steal ;) NOT.And that's only post-processed public domain data (pansharpened Landsat data is available for free)Don't even ask what the high res stuff costs.Christian

[Holger 0]

Hi guys,like Christian points out, a commercial version of TP isn't viable with the current cost of commercial high-res imagery.Here's some paper napkin math:Let's assume you could convince 5,000 people to pay US$20 per month for a commercial TP subscription service. That would generate US$100,000, which sounds like a lot but doesn't get you very far at all with high-res (1-m) IKONOS or Quickbird satellite imagery.I just purchased a commercial licence for less than 200 sqkm of IKONOS imagery for one of our payware projects. We chose the cheapest option, which meant I needed to do all the georeferencing myself, and it still cost us US$10 per sq km. Fully processed imagery gets a lot more expensice, e.g. http://www.gisrs.com/USPrices.htm . Now assume you could negotiate a great deal for bulk licensing and the provider lets you have georeferenced imagery (which you'd need for a TP service) for US$5 per sq km. Assuming zero overhead you could purchase 20,000 sq km of 1-m imagery per month, which is the equivalent of a square area spanning less than 90 miles on each side. Moreover, not all of the 5,000 users want to fly above the same area so, at worst, you have sufficient funds to license 4(!) unique sq km per user per month. With the ever increasing presence of high-res imagery in free applications like GE and VE it's easy to forget that the basic stuff is still very expensive, at least when you're talking about large, contiguous coverage areas that flight sims require. Mind you, there are some jurisdictions, most notably the US, that put a lot of high-res aerial photography into the public domain. Almost all of of the US is covered with recent NAIP 1-m and 2-m mosaics - http://www.microimages.com/geodata/StateOrtho.htm - and that's exactly what MegaSceneryEarth is using (considering the numbers above there's no chance they could afford high-res satellite imagery). These images, while of lesser quality than IKONOS or Quickbird, could be placed on a server and then streamed via a TP tool tied to a subscription service. However, I suppose the MegaSceneryEarth method of distributing these data may be more attractive to users; I honestly don't know.Cheers, Holger

[1st fltsimguy 466]

And I awoke from my dream....darn! You had to be there, it was unbelievable, high resolution photo scenery, with changing seasons, and fully loaded with autogen and 3D objects.Aw well back to FS9.

[Guest Jim Knows]

Hi guys,like Christian points out, a commercial version of TP isn't viable with the current cost of commercial high-res imagery.Here's some paper napkin math:Let's assume you could convince 5,000 people to pay US$20 per month for a commercial TP subscription service. That would generate US$100,000, which sounds like a lot but doesn't get you very far at all with high-res (1-m) IKONOS or Quickbird satellite imagery.I just purchased a commercial licence for less than 200 sqkm of IKONOS imagery for one of our payware projects. We chose the cheapest option, which meant I needed to do all the georeferencing myself, and it still cost us US$10 per sq km. Fully processed imagery gets a lot more expensice, e.g. http://www.gisrs.com/USPrices.htm . Now assume you could negotiate a great deal for bulk licensing and the provider lets you have georeferenced imagery (which you'd need for a TP service) for US$5 per sq km. Assuming zero overhead you could purchase 20,000 sq km of 1-m imagery per month, which is the equivalent of a square area spanning less than 90 miles on each side. Moreover, not all of the 5,000 users want to fly above the same area so, at worst, you have sufficient funds to license 4(!) unique sq km per user per month. With the ever increasing presence of high-res imagery in free applications like GE and VE it's easy to forget that the basic stuff is still very expensive, at least when you're talking about large, contiguous coverage areas that flight sims require. Mind you, there are some jurisdictions, most notably the US, that put a lot of high-res aerial photography into the public domain. Almost all of of the US is covered with recent NAIP 1-m and 2-m mosaics - http://www.microimages.com/geodata/StateOrtho.htm - and that's exactly what MegaSceneryEarth is using (considering the numbers above there's no chance they could afford high-res satellite imagery). These images, while of lesser quality than IKONOS or Quickbird, could be placed on a server and then streamed via a TP tool tied to a subscription service. However, I suppose the MegaSceneryEarth method of distributing these data may be more attractive to users; I honestly don't know.Cheers, Holger

Way way too complicated for nothing. Since Google is handing out their tiles for FREE to every Joe and his dog, can Google not be approached and asked for their tiles if we pay a monthly fee, or whatever creative arrangement that would be worked out for "consuming" purposes. You know, give them (Google) money while everyone else can continue to have it for FREE?I understand the part when making a product you need to PURCHASE the tiles. And its not cheap. I get that. I'm not talking about PURCHASING tiles, I am talking about using their tiles for a fee. Big difference.

[Holger 0]

I understand the part when making a product you need to PURCHASE the tiles. And its not cheap. I get that. I'm not talking about PURCHASING tiles, I am talking about using their tiles for a fee. Big difference.

Hi Jim,the key issue is that Google doesn't own the tiles, they license them from the respective owners for use in their software. Obviously, I don't know the specifics of the contract they signed with the image providers but the Google EULA is very restrictive and thus I assume that third-party use of their image tiles is strictly regulated in their contracts. The fact that they approached Christian about TP's non-commercial use of their tiles speaks to that fact. The contract we signed for our IKONOS imagery is very restrictive as well so I know the owners of the imagery are highly protective of their data, which isn't surprising considering the cost of launching and operating satellites. I'm not saying there couldn't be a contract that allows for the non-commercial use of Google Earth tiles but the negotiations would most likely would have to involve the actual copyright holders as well. The question that comes to my mind though is why would Google be interested? What is in it for them in return for doing all the work of combining and hosting the image tiles? Given that their commercial model is advertisement driven the only way I can envision this to happen is through the use of some kind of static or pop-up ads of companies in Flightsim; not sure I like that idea though it's increasingly common in entertainment software.Cheers, Holger

[Guest darrincates]

The question that comes to my mind though is why would Google be interested? What is in it for them in return for doing all the work of combining and hosting the image tiles?

Hasn't that work all ready been done? - Isn't that how tile proxy and FSX can grab the tiles in an orderly fashion to match the 'where' you are flying around?

Given that their commercial model is advertisement driven the only way I can envision this to happen is through the use of some kind of static or pop-up ads of companies in Flightsim; not sure I like that idea though it's increasingly common in entertainment software.Cheers, Holger

Hey I wouldn't mind the same amount of ads/copyright info in TP that I see when I use a web browser ... wait a minute, I don't see any ads at all! What ads are you talking about?I don't see any ads or get any pop ups when I use a browser to view these same tiles, just the copyright info at the bottom right. It seems to me that info could be added to an "I Agree" button upon TP installationIt doesn't matter if they own them, or rent them, or lease them; the bottom line is that they are giving them away for free and TP should be able to use them somehow. It seems that there must be someway to add the copyright info in the lower right while flying? Or do what ever needs to be done to make the access of these tiles compliant?

[Arista 0]

And now click on 'Search nearby', and you get something like this:Enough ads in there? Yes, you actively need to request them - remember, Google's not evil - but they're just a simple click away. As are Google's other prducts, by the way. How would you incorporate that into a flight sim?Btw, Holger, thanks for the MicroImages link - that looks very interesting indeed. Not least because it seems it can be accessed via WMS...

[Holger 0]

Me again,

Hasn't that work all ready been done? - Isn't that how tile proxy and FSX can grab the tiles in an orderly fashion to match the 'where' you are flying around?

Well, by that logic you wouldn't have to pay for flight tickets either. After all, someone else purchased the aircraft and makes them fly around, so why pay for hopping onboard? :(

It doesn't matter if they own them, or rent them, or lease them; the bottom line is that they are giving them away for free and TP should be able to use them somehow.

You cannot give away what you don't own and that's what GE clearly states in their terms of use in respect to third-party content embedded in GE, which includes all of the commercial satellite imagery and some of the map data.

Btw, Holger, thanks for the MicroImages link - that looks very interesting indeed. Not least because it seems it can be accessed via WMS...

You're welcome. Some of the mosaics are quite nice but others need a lot of processing to work in the sim. The basic issue is that they haven't been adjusted for the haze content inherent in aerial photography (and satellite imagery). FS simulates haze through its weather engine, which means ground textures need to be highly saturated to avoid the "washed out" look of non-processed imagery.Cheers, Holger

[Guest HamishAhern]

who has the ProxyUser.ini that still works with G**gle Maps?I am happy to mimic IE / firefox at retrieving the sat maps, and I don't care about the legalities, its just personal use, not like I'm selling it or distributing it like the tileproxy creator, someone please forward me privately a proxyuser.ini that works.here are some links (in order) that g00gle is using on my firefox firebug net, and bloody hell its fast and high res!

http://maps.g00gle.co.nz/maps/vp?spn=5.358....24633789062497http://khm1.g00gle.co.nz/kh/v=36&hl=en...amp;z=7&s=Ghttp://khm3.g00gle.co.nz/kh/v=36&hl=en...mp;z=7&s=Gahttp://khm3.g00gle.co.nz/kh/v=36&hl=en...7&z=7&s=http://khm2.g00gle.co.nz/kh/v=36&hl=en...z=8&s=Galilhttp://khm0.g00gle.co.nz/kh/v=36&hl=en...;z=8&s=Galihttp://khm0.g00gle.co.nz/kh/v=36&hl=en...=8&s=Galilehttp://mt2.g00gle.com/mt/v=w2t.88&hl=e...z=8&s=Galilhttp://mt0.g00gle.com/mt/v=w2t.88&hl=e...;z=8&s=Galihttp://mt0.g00gle.com/mt/v=w2t.88&hl=e...=8&s=Galilehttp://maps.g00gle.co.nz/maps/vp?spn=1.370....55657958984375http://maps.g00gle.co.nz/cat_js/intl/en_nz...m,mod_act%7D.js

replace g00gle with g**gle

[Guest cbuchner1]

Tileproxy now actively blocks any URLs that contain google.com as part of the domain name.Christian

[Guest HamishAhern]

Tileproxy now actively blocks any URLs that contain google.com as part of the domain name.Christian

Thats nice, but you didn't block google.co.nz which is what my country uses. I was downloading google tiles quite nicely with beta8!! thanks!!!also I can mod the sourcecode anyway. I might post a working version out again, I'll just post it on p2p networks.

[Guest cbuchner1]

Thats nice, but you didn't block google.co.nz which is what my country uses. I was downloading google tiles quite nicely with beta8!! thanks!!!also I can mod the sourcecode anyway. I might post a working version out again, I'll just post it on p2p networks.

Well, they did not ask me to block google.co.nz and there are certainly ways to work around the restriction that I was "required" to add.

[Guest Jim Knows]

Well, they did not ask me to block google.co.nz and there are certainly ways to work around the restriction that I was "required" to add.

Aaaaaargh!!!!!! Currently banging my head on the desk. A solution???!!!!!!. (Sorry, patience is not one of my strong suits)

[RSorochak 0]

Aaaaaargh!!!!!! Currently banging my head on the desk. A solution???!!!!!!. (Sorry, patience is not one of my strong suits)

Using the NZ Google server, I can connect for a very short time but, then, Google cuts me off. I can watch the tiles download and load in the TilePRoxy window but, after a few minutes, Google gives me the ax. Unfortunately it's not even long enough to get into the cockpit. And then I'm cut off for roughly 24 hours from accessing their map servers either through TileProxy or any browser. Evidently, once their server senses a "robot" connecting, your IP gets cut off.Rich

[tmx 0]

And what about G. Earth? It's never banned after using TP and there's flight simulator included. Do you think it would be possible to connect TP a GEarth?