P - FACTOR On OR Off? Rob Young?

[crvm 0]

I have read many places where the P factor is over done and the slider is either ON or OFF. So, for flight realism, should I enable this or just turn it off?[h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. SmithSan Jose Ca[/h5][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3]AMD [pink]XP[/pink] 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG |WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"

[LAdamson 240]

Of course I'm not Rob Young, but I do have experience with these things :)For the first time ever, I just turned P-Factor off....Wow.................. talk about a "loss" of realism, regardless of what you've read! I've already figured that some simmers in regard to P-factor, slip stream, and torque, have no idea of what they're talking about; or DON'T use "rudder pedals"!In my experience, without rudder pedals, these left drift tendencies do get a bit hard to control & very sensitive. With rudder pedals, and a respectable air.file, the drift & required right foot on the pedal during the takeoff roll & climbout are just about right.In fact, it seems that Microsoft's CFS2, FS2002, and IL2-Sturmovik are the only ones I've tried that really give a feel of needing right rudder with single engine aircraft.By turning P-factor OFF, I just lost that "feel". I don't know exactly how it's tied to "slip stream" effect (simulation wise), since I left "torque" on, but I certainly just lost the effect of left drift in general.Regarding Rob Young & his flight models, the default 182 wasn't bad with left drift tendencies to start with. When he released the 182 update a year or so ago, the left drift tendency was "near perfect" which I noted back then. I say "leave it on"!EDIT, additional notes:Even a small GA single engine aircraft with CCW rotating prop (viewed from the front) will tend to drift to the left side of the runway fairly quickly. I remember "warning" my daughter of this before she took her first flight lesson at age 16. It was a Piper Archer, and I sat in the back seat. We immediately began a track towards the left side after power application and the instructor repeated "more right rudder, more right rudder"! From experience, I also know what happens if the engine goes to idle just before rotation. Since I've been counteracting torque & P-factor with right rudder, the plane makes a quick bee-line to the right, when these factors are no longer present!! Then it's a case of quick left rudder before you run over the runway lights! :)For realism, try setting the heading bug to the runway heading. Keep the correct amount of right rudder (with pedals) to maintain the runway centerline. After rotation, just keep the heading bug centered. That way, when you look back, your still on the runway heading with a straight climbout. L.Adamson

[Guest Milton]

I would agree that with P-factor on you will see more realism, maybe more than some of us fs-pilots can handle. ;-) Without rudder pedals however, the realism can be hmmmm disasterous? lolI would suggest setting it where you are most comfortable for the equipment you have.Milton

[LAdamson 240]

>I would agree that with P-factor on you will see more>realism, maybe more than some of us fs-pilots can handle. ;-)> Without rudder pedals however, the realism can be hmmmm>disasterous? lol>True ---- without rudder pedals, I vote for "auto rudder" as the effects are too much to handle & overly sensitive. And that includes twist grips and rocker switches, such as my Saitek X-45's. Rudder pedals develope a "feel" that just doesn't seem present with other rudder methods. I went for a couple of weeks without pedals, and really did notice the difference. That's why I say, that one can't realistically comment on realism regarding torque,slipstream, and P-factor if they're not using pedals.L.Adamson

[crvm 0]

Thank you guys very much, I shall leave it on then![h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. SmithSan Jose Ca[/h5][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3]AMD [pink]XP[/pink] 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG |WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"

[Fragmentum 1]

IMHO,Randy, I suggest you turn P factor off, and here is why.The P factor tendencies of flight sim aircraft are not all the same nor relative to those models as well. Some airplanes just do not handle well at all on the ground and during take off/climb. The loss of this 'so called' realism factor will NOT be missed by you, believe me. In realism settings, I suggest the following settings for max enjoyment.In 'Settings - Realism', set General slider fully to the right.Set P factor fully to the left.Set Torque, Gyro and Crash Tolerance fully to the right.Now your airplanes track straight and true down the runway.Don

[Guest Howard]

Hi Randy,Read somewhere: For the props leave it on, for the jets leave it off.RegardsHoward

[LAdamson 240]

>Hi Randy,>>Read somewhere: For the props leave it on, for the jets leave>it off.>Happily, my jets track straight, or nearly straight down the runway with all factors left on. I've heard that some have had drifting tendencies with jet's, but it doesn't seem to be universal.L.Adamson

[LAdamson 240]

>IMHO,>Randy, I suggest you turn P factor off, and here is why.>The P factor tendencies of flight sim aircraft are not all the>same nor relative to those models as well. Some airplanes just>do not handle well at all on the ground and during take>off/climb. The loss of this 'so called' realism factor will>NOT be missed by you, believe me. In realism settings, I>suggest the following settings for max enjoyment.I'm one of those who immediately judges a flight model beginning with the takeoff roll. While the drift tendencies might not appeal to everyone (especially without rudder pedals), I just find it adds to the realism. Infact, I can easily remember how well it was done in Microsoft's CFS2 for the single engine fighters. I was then somewhat dissapointed with FS2K because it was overdone on initial application of the throttle. The defaults of FS2002 were "tamed" and are actually quite good, with a few third parties being even better or worse.But non-the-less, I do enjoy the effect with pedals, and would surely miss it. Personally, I don't find models that hard to operate on the ground either, & am mystified why others seem to have so many problems. The original post asked if the effect is overdone. Without P-factor enabled, the left drift is disabled, and in the end, that's what counts. The left drift is actually quite authentic and is NOT over done. I like to set the heading bug to the runway heading and apply enough pedal to keep it there. It actually works quite well and simulates the effect quite realistically-----------------provided you have pedals. I could also suspect that sensitivites could vary with vaious pedals. Mine are Thrustmasters and the settings are default.L.AdamsonL.Adamson

[crvm 0]

All very interesting. From reading some books I see that P factor should not be very noticable during cruise, but pronouced with slow flight or on takeoffs and landings. I do find that even with no wind I have to apply some right rudder to keep her straight in level flight, this applies to all my Ga aircraft, and I don't mean default aircraft. This of course is fine, if this simulates real world flight, but I don't want to have to unlearn this if it's not how it really is. Do any of you guys fly real Cessnas? [h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. SmithSan Jose Ca[/h5][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3]AMD [pink]XP[/pink] 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG @ 215/545|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"

[LAdamson 240]

>Do any>of you guys fly real Cessnas? >Only if I have too! :) Did fly a 172SP last summer, but I prefer some faster & more responsive low-wing planes, which is why I got into higher performance homebuilts. Pipers were my preference in years past. New Cessna's are kind of nice.......... for the newness, though :)As to rudder in cruise flight, this is usually taken care of in several ways. Either adjustable rudder trim, or a fixed tab that can be adjusted on the ground (as in a 172). And if it's adjusted correctly, you shouldn't need much rudder (or no rudder) in cruise.But there are always cases where you'll need right rudder for a long flight at cruise speeds. A friend of mine, once piloted a Pitt's across the U.S. for a new owner. No rudder trim & higher speeds resulted in right foot for the entire trip. That's just the way it is! The Pitt's is designed for aerobatics...... not cross countries.BTW--- my own plane, which is in the finishing stages has a fixed "ground adjustable" rudder tab & electric aileron trim. Other devices such as "wedges" can also be used. L.Adamson