9-11

[jagabom 21]

I just listened to Amy Grant's tribute to 9-11. She has done an excellent job. Worth a listen.Sorry I tried to get a link to youtube but couldn't. Maybe someone else can.JimCYWG

[Guest Shalomar]

THIS TOPIC IS TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE TO A FLIGHT SIMULATION FORUM. Further posts of this nature will be erased and the poster's access limited to reading only.I guess what's good for the goose is good for the Gander so I'll save Tom or John the trouble... :(

I just listened to Amy Grant's tribute to 9-11. She has done an excellent job. Worth a listen.Sorry I tried to get a link to youtube but couldn't. Maybe someone else can.JimCYWG

[John_Cillis 2,406]

THIS TOPIC IS TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE TO A FLIGHT SIMULATION FORUM. Further posts of this nature will be erased and the poster's access limited to reading only.I guess what's good for the goose is good for the Gander so I'll save Tom or John the trouble... :(

I'm not a mod here Shalomar, but I view an Amy Grant song regarding the worst afront to aviation in history in a different light vs. posts that try to raise a discussion regarding U.S. policy in general. I'd take Tom's words seriously--I've learned from personal experience you don't mess around with Tom by displaying an attitude in these forums when you've been sanctioned.

[Guest firehawk44]

THIS TOPIC IS TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE TO A FLIGHT SIMULATION FORUM. Further posts of this nature will be erased and the poster's access limited to reading only.I guess what's good for the goose is good for the Gander so I'll save Tom or John the trouble... :(

Shalomar,I certainly hope you were just kidding!Jim

[Guest Shalomar]

I was only half kidding. I suppose to Tom a post about a private citizen's efforts to prevent the greatest affront to aviation is less relevant than a multimillionaire making more money off a tragedy after the fact. But this is not a democracy so I will not elaborate further...Donald Traillhttp://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic....=23&t=13266

Shalomar,I certainly hope you were just kidding!Jim

[John_Cillis 2,406]

I was only half kidding. I suppose to Tom a post about a private citizen's efforts to prevent the greatest affront to aviation is less relevant than a multimillionaire making more money off a tragedy after the fact. But this is not a democracy so I will not elaborate further...

Why don't you at least be honest, your original post earlier in the week had no mention of aviation and didn't include the link you added to this thread. It did include the prose in one of your follow-up replies to the thread in the link (part of which included "The blood of martyrs is seed, and we are creating plenty"), and whether one agrees with your politics or not I feel such rhetoric is divisive to our community.And Amy Grant has done more to help people than just about any entertainer I know. I am not big on organized religion, but have been to several of her concerts over the years. I strongly suspect any song she has recorded related to 9/11 will benefit others, not her. But I guess it's easy to insult an entertainer in the manner you have, they are a safe target.

[Guest Shalomar]

My original post actually consisted word for word of the information provided in the *original* post in the link, for your information. Plenty of references to aviation if you ask me.I did not mean to insult Amy Grant, though at the time I *was* slightly miffed. I apolligise for that. But, the bottom line is one thread about the same subject disapeared, and one did not.Best Regards, Donald Traill

Why don't you at least be honest, your original post earlier in the week had no mention of aviation and didn't include the link you added to this thread. It did include the prose in one of your follow-up replies to the thread in the link (part of which included "The blood of martyrs is seed, and we are creating plenty"), and whether one agrees with your politics or not I feel such rhetoric is divisive to our community.And Amy Grant has done more to help people than just about any entertainer I know. I am not big on organized religion, but have been to several of her concerts over the years. I strongly suspect any song she has recorded related to 9/11 will benefit others, not her. But I guess it's easy to insult an entertainer in the manner you have, they are a safe target.

[Guest Shalomar]

P.S. You might want to get used to my politics as you say, they are at least partially shared by our current President. Among other things he plans to end the "legal black hole" status of Gitmo, and redouble diplomatic efforts toward America's enemies.Among my many contributions to National Security over the years was a strong suggestion to the SS that Presidents ride on ordinary military transports when going into "hot zones". I made this suggestion during the First Gulf War when I realised Bush senior would most likely fly to Kuwait eventually like Reagan flew to Grenada. Bush senior did not follow that advice, but Clinton did extensively on his trips to South Korea and the former Yugo.There, this post has references to aviation... :(

[John_Cillis 2,406]

My original post actually consisted word for word of the information provided in the *original* post in the link, for your information. Plenty of references to aviation if you ask me.I did not mean to insult Amy Grant, though at the time I *was* slightly miffed. I apolligise for that. But, the bottom line is one thread about the same subject disapeared, and one did not.Best Regards, Donald Traill

I am referring to this post:http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=243384It only contained the portion which referenced your "seed" reply but not one word regarding aviation. And even if you had included it, using aviation as an excuse to inject your politics into this forum is lame and unfair in my opinion since Tom has made it clear we cannot use this forum to disuss them. Believe me, after years of war and also watching friends die in Vietnam and Iraq, I have some pointed views on what my country does. As for the thread I link to above, if there was another post I did not see it (it wasn't made in that thread though) but I am sure Tom can display what got censored if you have any challenges to my integrity regarding my reply in this thread. Right now it seems like you're just daring Tom to follow thru on his threat.As for what you said about Obama, before Tom axed your post among other things I was going to say is that Al Qaeda doesn't care who is in office or whether we pull our military out of the middle east, take peace drugs, and never harm human or animal again. In fact Al Qaeda was attacking Obama and blaming him for their ills before he even took office.Al Qaeda and Middle Eastern terrorists are interested in one thing--genocide. They want to kill Americans, kill the West and it does not matter who they kill (as witnessed in 9-11 since many Muslims and non-Americans were among those killed in the twin towers). You weren't the only one who saw 9-11 coming. I was logging 100K a year in the air for a dozen years prior to 9-11, and quite sensitive to what I saw and world politics. I don't know if you remember, but bringing an aircraft down as an act of terrorism or insanity had been going on for decades. I remember the BAE-146 brought down in California and knew then what was to come. And I suspect there were incidents prior to that.What I will tell you is if Al Qaeda hits America hard enough, they will sow the seed of our own "martyrs", and I guarantee you some "Timothy McVeigh" types will go nuts enough to start hitting the Middle East with the same type of senseless attacks. Except when it comes to senseless actions and killing for no reason, Americans are unfortunately ingenious and have far more resources than Al Qaeda. Meaning you would see attacks on Mecca, the Grand Mosque, etc....

[John_Cillis 2,406]

Believe me, after years of war and also watching friends die in Vietnam and Iraq, I have some pointed views on what my country does.

I do want to reply to one of my own comments as even if it isn't perceived in such a manner, I feel it can be seen as disrespectful to those who've served our country. I never served, but friends have. When I was just a young boy and living in Illinois, I idolized our teenage neighbor who used to tinker with motorcycles and allowed me to hang around all day long. He was the first teenager who ever treated me as an equal though I was much younger. I last saw him in 1966 just before we moved to California, it was one of my saddest goodbye's and I think I cried half the trip out to California.I think watching him with is bike is why I love flying Microlights and Trikes--I grew up on the incense of two cycle fumes, so to speak. Sadly he was lost in Vietnam. Iraq has claimed several that I knew, and in some instances the children of those I've grown up with. But I did not fight alongside anyone and seeing what I wrote, using the phrase "watching friends die" was the wrong one to choose.Regards,John