I got your Windows Live right here Microsoft! Go Austin!

[MatthewS 761]

Taking a licensed product made for FS and 'porting' it to X-Plane would violate the licensing agreement for the FS product.

Sure, before porting a FS9/FSX product the user should get permission from that product's author.Murmur, don't be scared off by talk of "violating licenses agreements" etc. You are not responsible for what people do with your plugin anymore than a gunmaker is responsible for the actions of shooters.IMHO there may be people who do not want X-Plane to succeed because they have commercial interests in the FS9/FSX platform and do not want the flight simming market diluted by X-Plane.

[WarpD 824]

Sure, before porting a FS9/FSX product the user should get permission from that product's author.Murmur, don't be scared off by talk of "violating licenses agreements" etc. You are not responsible for what people do with your plugin anymore than a gunmaker is responsible for the actions of shooters.IMHO there may be people who do not want X-Plane to succeed because they have commercial interests in the FS9/FSX platform and do not want the flight simming market diluted by X-Plane.

Since what I do is commercial release products... it has nothing to do with what I do or don't want to succeed. If you purchase anything made by me, you have zero legal right to port it.Would you hand out X-Plane to anyone who wants it by bypassing it's licensing?

[MatthewS 761]

Since what I do is commercial release products... it has nothing to do with what I do or don't want to succeed. If you purchase anything made by me, you have zero legal right to port it.Would you hand out X-Plane to anyone who wants it by bypassing it's licensing?

As I stated in my post, the user should get permission from the product author before porting. If Murmur is developing a "tool" then he is not responsible for how people choose use it.Keep up the good work Murmur, X-Plane is the future of flight simming!

[WarpD 824]

As I stated in my post, the user should get permission from the product author before porting. If Murmur is developing a "tool" then he is not responsible for how people choose use it.Keep up the good work Murmur, X-Plane is the future of flight simming!

That's not true... lesse, what was that program.... *thinks*... oh yeah... Napster... big law suit... they lost... BIG time. Their defense... same as what you stated. ;)

[MatthewS 761]

That's not true... lesse, what was that program.... *thinks*... oh yeah... Napster... big law suit... they lost... BIG time. Their defense... same as what you stated. ;)

Why do you do this?It would seem that your negativity is intended to discourage progress of the X-Plane platform. I understand you have R&D investment in 3rd party products for the FS9/FSX platform and the more users switch to X-Plane the smaller your market becomes, thus the smaller your ROI. In anycase there are many freeware planes out there with authors who would give permission for their products to be ported. If the user chooses to port a commercial product then its the user that is breaking the licence agreement and not Murmur for developing a tool.I have no commercial interest in FS9/FSX (or X-Plane for that matter). I want to see the X-Plane platform grow and not be stifled by talk of legal action. Do you want the X-Plane platform to grow? From how you like to scaremonger my guess is NO.Additionally, since purchasing X-Plane a couple of weeks ago, I am no longer buying any more addons for FSX (I have over $1000 worth). I don't see the point in supporting a dead franchise. I would rather spend my money supporting X-Plane developers.

[LAdamson 240]

Additionally, since purchasing X-Plane a couple of weeks ago, I am no longer buying any more addons for FSX (I have over $1000 worth). I don't see the point in supporting a dead franchise. I would rather spend my money supporting X-Plane developers.

For anyone interested in realism as much as possible, the sim as marketed by Microsoft was just a base product. It's all the addons that make it what it is.This base product would have remained the same for at least two more years. As to myself, I'll still purchase excellent addons for FS9/FSX should they be marketed. My main interest in flight simming is "flight fidelity", followed by terrain data-bases. At this point, and my point of view; the most faithful renditions of re-creating real flight have been from products designed for the MSFS flightsim series. I think X-Plane needs to stand on it's own legs, rather than porting over Microsoft's aircraft, flight dynamics, and scenery. As I said, the same base platform for FSX would have been around two more years anyway. It didn't just die or desolve. I'll support X-Plane developers as much as I did MSFS developers, when their products are up to MSFS addon standards. At this point, most have a way to go. BTW--- Ever flown in a North American P-51D Mustang? I have! It was great, and it hasn't been produced since the mid 1940's. Imagine that....L.Adamson

[tf51d 284]

Why do you do this?It would seem that your negativity is intended to discourage progress of the X-Plane platform. I understand you have R&D investment in 3rd party products for the FS9/FSX platform and the more users switch to X-Plane the smaller your market becomes, thus the smaller your ROI. In anycase there are many freeware planes out there with authors who would give permission for their products to be ported. If the user chooses to port a commercial product then its the user that is breaking the licence agreement and not Murmur for developing a tool.I have no commercial interest in FS9/FSX (or X-Plane for that matter). I want to see the X-Plane platform grow and not be stifled by talk of legal action. Do you want the X-Plane platform to grow? From how you like to scaremonger my guess is NO.Additionally, since purchasing X-Plane a couple of weeks ago, I am no longer buying any more addons for FSX (I have over $1000 worth). I don't see the point in supporting a dead franchise. I would rather spend my money supporting X-Plane developers.

Regardless of motive, he is right, it is a violation of MS EULA!"Use of this software or any part of it to transfer data to another program not related to this software is prohibited." Quote from FSX EULA!

[WarpD 824]

Why do you do this?It would seem that your negativity is intended to discourage progress of the X-Plane platform. I understand you have R&D investment in 3rd party products for the FS9/FSX platform and the more users switch to X-Plane the smaller your market becomes, thus the smaller your ROI. In anycase there are many freeware planes out there with authors who would give permission for their products to be ported. If the user chooses to port a commercial product then its the user that is breaking the licence agreement and not Murmur for developing a tool.I have no commercial interest in FS9/FSX (or X-Plane for that matter). I want to see the X-Plane platform grow and not be stifled by talk of legal action. Do you want the X-Plane platform to grow? From how you like to scaremonger my guess is NO.Additionally, since purchasing X-Plane a couple of weeks ago, I am no longer buying any more addons for FSX (I have over $1000 worth). I don't see the point in supporting a dead franchise. I would rather spend my money supporting X-Plane developers.

I've already stated the following:1. The X-Plane flight dynamics are inaccurate. I went into detail as to why in another thread.2. The X-Plane design does not support 3rd party commercial development. It is a constantly changing interface with little stability towards support of commercial development. People already scream bloody murder when we charge for our products based on version of FS. Based on the current X-Plane development approach we'd have to re-do products for potentially each point release... not very cost effective. There would be no ROI for a 3rd party developer.If you want X-Plane to be supported by 3rd party developers, you've got to make it honestly worth their while. It currently isn't... and suggesting that users pirate their favorite commercial FS addons over isn't going to make us want to switch any faster.Oh... and if you really think the longest running software franchise in the history of the personal computer is dead... well... :(

[Geofa 108]

I've already stated the following:1. The X-Plane flight dynamics are inaccurate. I went into detail as to why in another thread.2. The X-Plane design does not support 3rd party commercial development. It is a constantly changing interface with little stability towards support of commercial development. People already scream bloody murder when we charge for our products based on version of FS. Based on the current X-Plane development approach we'd have to re-do products for potentially each point release... not very cost effective. There would be no ROI for a 3rd party developer.If you want X-Plane to be supported by 3rd party developers, you've got to make it honestly worth their while. It currently isn't... and suggesting that users pirate their favorite commercial FS addons over isn't going to make us want to switch any faster.Oh... and if you really think the longest running software franchise in the history of the personal computer is dead... well... :(

Ed-I have to respectively disagree with #1. I think this used to be the case, and until a few days ago I believed this myself.In my case I have a better flying Baron than I have with the default fsx and 3rd party now-and there are still a lot of variables I'd like to tweak to make it even more.The momentum can now be added.#2-could be a problem still.

[WarpD 824]

Ed-I have to respectively disagree with #1. I think this used to be the case, and until a few days ago I believed this myself.In my case I have a better flying Baron than I have with the default fsx and 3rd party now-and there are still a lot of variables I'd like to tweak to make it even more.The momentum can now be added.#2-could be a problem still.

Geof, I'll take your word for it. Are there now entries for you to set moments of inertia for the aircraft? After all, they are rather unique per aircraft design.

[Geofa 108]

Geof, I'll take your word for it. Are there now entries for you to set moments of inertia for the aircraft? After all, they are rather unique per aircraft design.

There are a couple parameters that seem to work.1) Radii of gyration2)Damping on the control force3) One of the joystick settings.I was a none believer completely-even complained everything felt like slow flight.I feel I now have a fm that has the best to offer from fs and from xplane-stable but more realistic.Again-I have much more work to do-but I am extremely happy even right now.Also-able to tweak the gauges to get exact measurements-I don't remember being able to do that in the past.

[WarpD 824]

Hmmm... those are not an accurate way to define the inertial movements. :( I'm sure it can appear to be 'right', but it's not giving me warm fuzzies to have to do that much tweaking to get the correct aircraft behavior.As for gauges, I think I would find it rather difficult to replicate my Citation X gauges in X-Plane. They are far more complex than anything I've seen made to date for the sim.

[MatthewS 761]

BTW--- Ever flown in a North American P-51D Mustang? I have! It was great, and it hasn't been produced since the mid 1940's. Imagine that....

No I haven't, but you are talking about the real world which doesn't need updating, unlike MSFS/XP which need to evolve to better simulate the real world.

[MatthewS 761]

Oh... and if you really think the longest running software franchise in the history of the personal computer is dead... well... :(

Do you know something we don't? Is there a FS11 coming? How much longer before Microsoft stops shipping FSX boxes to traditional retailers (eg Walmart)? When this happens I imagine retailers will also stop stocking 3rd party boxes, since what's the point of selling add-ons when you can't also sell FSX? Which will only leave online shops selling to existing FSX/FS9 users.I don't see how FSX market share can grow. Where do you buy it?Over the next couple of years as X-Plane continues to evolve more 3rd party products will become available and FSX market share will shrink dramatically.Assuming of course that Laminar Research don't stuff up this golden opportunity that Microsoft has given them.

[Geofa 108]

Hmmm... those are not an accurate way to define the inertial movements. :( I'm sure it can appear to be 'right', but it's not giving me warm fuzzies to have to do that much tweaking to get the correct aircraft behavior.As for gauges, I think I would find it rather difficult to replicate my Citation X gauges in X-Plane. They are far more complex than anything I've seen made to date for the sim.

As for the flight model adjustments it is quite simple-just toss a few numbers in-fly it-and find when it "feels" right. That part was simple.As for as custom gauges-I don't know about glass gauges. I do know with every version of every sim I've always tried to get my real aircraft panel in for training purposes.I had a pretty good one in fsx but only about 80% functional. I have one now in xplane that is 95% and I am hoping I can get the other 5.At first it was strange as the whole system for gauges works completely differently from fsx-but for a non programmer like me it is a wonderful thing.For instance-in fsx I needed a dual manifold/rpm gauge. Until fsx there were none-fsx had one with the grumman. I replaced the gauges from the grumman with picts from my real ones-only trouble is the numbers were not in the the same place as the fsx ones so the needles read wrong, and the fsx size was so low res they looked blurry. I tried tweaking the xml files for the needles to read right-and just was never able to do it.With xplane-I put in my picts of my gauges (and they can be any size-not limited to the same size as fsx gauges-which was a whole other problem for me as the fsx ones were too low res). Put in some nice high res shots of the gauges-then go into plane maker-and set the needles to work like a clock-from this many degrees to that many. Done!!!! An accurate gauge that looks and works like the real thing!I have a working Century Iv autopilot, a stormscope, and nexrad weather on a "fake" garmin 496(yes that is a little artistic license).I have been waiting for instance for a stormscope gauge for fs for years-just was not going to happen.I will have a very accurate Baron both in looks and flying ability in xplane for a couple weeks of work (I already today have something way superior to fsx). Extremely exciting to me-it wasn't going to happen in fsx..To be honest-I'd rather pay you guys to do one for me...either in fsx or xplane :( But until then-this appears to be the closest I'm gonna get.