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Magic Man

FS2004 Opening a can of worms

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Additionally, what groups like FSD International are doing in terms of damage modelling and engine wear etc, is only going to increase demand on "appropriate" hardware.I usually say to those FS buddies of mine whose sole idea of flight simming is taking off from Meigs, doing a couple of laps of Chicago and then attempting a landing back at Meigs with all weather turned off and no ATC, is stick with an old version, but if you want to simulate reality then you have to get the appropriate gear.Cheers,Chris Porter:-outtaPerthWestern Australia

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To rebut a few of the replies to my original post:1)The hype about how "late and great" FS2004's new airplanes, clouds/weather, and ATC is going to be is that, just a bunch of hype.2)No I don't expect a million new features in FS2004, but to pay another $60 to $70 for a few bug fixes, a couple of new airplanes, no improvement in the carryover airplanes, slight improvements in weather and ATC, and no real photographic scenery I think is a rip-off.3)Do I expect real photographic scenery for the entire planet? No!!!!! But a few cities would be nice. It only cost 75mb's to do San Diego/Imperial Counties for FS98 and 180mb's to do Los Angeles/Riverside/Orange/San Bernardino Counties for Fly 2. 4)No I'm not happy with the scenery detail in FS98 and the scenery in FS2002 is infinitely better. WHAT I SAID IS, I still fly FS98 because I have real photographic scenery of San Diego (which is infinitely better than the high detail areas of FS2002) to fly over. And I'll take any little bit I can get like Washington State in FUIII.5)I don't own the SF260 because Rob Young suggested I shouldn't buy it because I still use a Voodoo video card. But I have flown it on a friends computer and when I do the next upgrade of my system if it's still available then I will buy it because it will still be better than any airplane that Microsoft will have offered in FS2004.6)I don't care for the VC in Geofa's Debonair either. But then I don't usually fly with the VC's anyway. But the rest of the Debonair is the best I've seen. I still point out that no other airplane freeware or payware has sun glare on the instrument panel or an engine cowling visible out the windsheild and the wings and side panels/interior views are "as real as it gets"7)I don't know about the rest of you but FS2002 has been a very stable platform for me. With a 1.2ghz system and an (obsolete) 3dfx V5 5500 Voodoo video card with most of the scenery sliders maxed out I average a very respectable 20 to 30 fps. I have experienced NO lockups, and NO BSOD's in the 8 months since I installed FS2002. The only problem I have experienced running add-ons (again due to my Voodoo card) is POSKY's newest 747-400's.It will be interesting to see this forum in the first 24 hours after FS2004 is released with all of you complaining about all the problems installing and running it (framerate problems, direct X problems, video card driver problems, sound problems, etc...) and all of the complaints about how all the new and improved features don't work as expected (the clouds don't look right, the ATC doesn't work right). I can almost hear some of you saying now, "just deleted FS2004, going back to Fly 2" or "will (this feature) be fixed in FS2006". Sskoup

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IMHO, COF seems to be an expensive patch for FS2002 with more aircraft and a few other updates.I don't see anything in COF that couldn't be added into FS2K2 with an update or patch.Of course I don't have COF but on the surface that's what it seems like to me.


Ark

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I9 9900K @ 5ghz / 32GB G.Skill (Samsung B) / Aorus Master Mobo / EVGA GTX 2080Ti FTW 3

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Hi, How can you add an entire new weather engine in a patch :-lolWe are not talking about basic weather a la fly2 with no thunderstorm and limited layer, cutted sun at the horizon non fixable, and all these limitation, static sky system etc more and more..ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs


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Chris Willis

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Guest Eric

Hello,"The hype about how "late and great" FS2004's new airplanes, clouds/weather, and ATC is going to be is that, just a bunch of hype"" can almost hear some of you saying now, "just deleted FS2004, going back to Fly 2" or "will (this feature) be fixed in FS2006". "Typical post from unknow real name, low amount of post, tons of bla bla.."To rebut a few of the replies to my original post:"No no, we don't care anyways..BestEric

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Chris, "but if you want to simulate reality then you have to get the appropriate gear."100% agree, like any complex game, if you want Inovationnew feature, you should always be in the "computer club market", but the problem is, there is alot don't know about this computer phenomena and product, they think it's only Ms works like this.High end 2001 computer (fs2002) :1.3ghz 3d card 64 megWe are now at: Near 3.4 ghz, 3d card 256MBAlot of difference here!ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs


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Chris Willis

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O yes we do care...Not everybody has that great positive feeling buying Microsoft products. If you fall for the hype you set yourself up to be greatly dissapointed.Currently in Fs2002 I don't bother much with the clouds and I tried some ATC but now I ussually fly the Dreamfleet 737 and the PIC 767 using the FMC ATC doesn't fit in well if you're not using FS200x flightplanning.Improved clouds and weather? The way I use FS200x I wil look at it 2,3 maybe 4 times and switch it off after that to get a better framerate (like a realy detailed airport scenery beter than the white flufy stuff). And thats a comment frome someone that uses a well tuned AMD 2400 with a Ati 9700 Pro.ATC same deal I'll look at it once or twice but if FS internal flightplanning isn't more detailed and if it doesn't fit in with FMC's there is little use for it (to me).As to your other points:My name real name is: Harry BoschI don't post much in these forums but I lurk all on the major flightsim forums and have done so for many years.I have bought all the FS software since FS5.0 and I even have Sublogic's ATP (run it on an older machine every now and then). I will buy Fs2004 the moment it comes out (and I almost certainly will be disappointed by it)The way I see it is that you think FS2004 will be great because you really care about clouds and the in program ATC. I and some of the other posters in this topic don't care as much about these items. A clickable VC is also very nice new feature but I have the PIC A320 and can tell you firsthand that althoug its a nice option to have its not a groundbreaking new feature that makes FS2004 a must buy.I honestly think I get beter value and fun from a good 3rd party add-on than I will get from FS2004 (untill that one gets the 3rd party treatment). I still hope I will be proven wrong but looking back at all the FS releases of the past I think the chances on that are slim.


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What good is a "complete new weather system" if 1% of the world owns computers that can actually use it?


Ark

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I9 9900K @ 5ghz / 32GB G.Skill (Samsung B) / Aorus Master Mobo / EVGA GTX 2080Ti FTW 3

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Hi, "What good is a "complete new weather system" if 1% of the world owns computers that can actually use it?"1%, this what's you said from what's you have heard, like I have read any 1.8 ghz mid system and up will run great the sim. Trowing number like this can be confusing, specialy when the product is not finished and released and when the computer speed increase quickly.I have seen alot people from fs2000 upgrading their system for fs2002 before during and after the release, I have seen complaint like what's you just said now.Typical pattern , fast forward and rewind .ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs


Kind Regards
Chris Willis

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>What good is a "complete new weather system" if 1% of the>world owns computers that can actually use it?So what,And in six months or less, it will be 50% or 75% who will be able to use it. Comfortable simming does not require all sliders to be over to the right.As I said above, don't get it if your rig can't handle it or you don't think it is value to you. But don't decry those of us that will go out and buy a system to maximise the results.This constant carping by many about the lack of value is somewhat tiring. The moral is "If you don't want it or don't think it's of value, don't get it", just stop whining about it.Cheers,Chris Porter:-outtaPerthWestern AustraliaIntel Pentium IV 2.26GHz(533)512K L2 Cache NorthwoodIntel D850EMV2-LAN P4 (533MHz FSB)Kingston/Samsung 256MB PC-800 RAMBUS, x 2 (512Mb)MSI-8872 GeForce4 Titanium 4600 128MB DDRHyundai -ImageQuest P910+, 19" Multi-Scan Digital MonitorHercules Game Theater XP, 6.1 speakers Dolby

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Matt, That has got to be one of the most logical cases put forth in this whole debate. Kudos to you!-Greg

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Guest cast1010

>O yes we do care...>>Not everybody has that great positive feeling buying Microsoft>products. If you fall for the hype you set yourself up to be>greatly dissapointed.I don't consider it hype, humans tends to seek improvement in their experiences if they are able to. Microsoft is giving us the opportunity to improve our flightsim experience with this new simulator and if I have the possibilities to buy it and to upgrade my machine to run it as better as possible, with no doubt I WILL. Disappointment? I don't think so, Microsoft hasn't disappointed me in years, on the contraire.>The way I see it is that you think FS2004 will be great>because you really care about clouds and the in program ATC. I>and some of the other posters in this topic don't care as much>about these items. A clickable VC is also very nice new>feature but I have the PIC A320 and can tell you firsthand>that althoug its a nice option to have its not a>groundbreaking new feature that makes FS2004 a must buy.I'm sorry sir, but you like others, don't fit into the term "Flight Simmers". I think you better fit into any other Sim around like SimCity, Train Simulator or whatever. Those things that you don't care are vitals parts in flying. Carlos.

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>I'm sorry sir, but you like others, don't fit into the term>"Flight Simmers". I think you better fit into any other Sim>around like SimCity, Train Simulator or whatever. Those things>that you don't care are vitals parts in flying. >>Carlos.I'm sorry i don't fit in your definition of flight simmer. Should I bin all the FS version (FS5.0 to FS2002) PIC A320, PIC 767, Dreamfleet 737, PSS A320, Captain Sims MiG 21 & L-39, Real Airs SF260, Pilots B314, LAGO's Twin Otter, Tornado and Ultralights, ATP (+ my old nostalgic C64 copy of Sublogic Flightsim, The many versions of F19 Stealth Fighter & Gunship, All possible versions of Falcon Dig Int's Tornado, DIDs EF2000 and F22. The complete Janes series of flight sims, both IL 2 versions. My copies of Fly and Fly2 + addon scenery and planes. And some others I forgot. Should I bin those would that make you happy?In case you wonder I'm talking all full price original games here. Flight simming and I go way back from my first 'sim' (MicroProse Gunship for the C64 on tape in 1986). To my the latest IL-2 Forgotten Battles.Sorry if I don't limit myself to your prized FS2004 which seem to want to glorify without even having seen or played the game. I hope you get to use some of the excellent other flight sim packages that are out there an become serious about this hobby. If you want to get REALY serious you could get the 744 from http://www.aerowinx.com/ But wait that one misses important features like nice looking clouds an a half arsed ATC implementation. Must be for non serious simmers then...


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More replies to the replies,First to "Eric",You say my opinion shouldn't count because of my low number of posts to this forum. Well then by your own logic your opinion shouldn't count to those who have thousands of posts to this forum. FYI, I have been simming since FS4 and I have been reading this and other flight sim forums for about three years. I only post when I think I can help someone who has a problem or when "I THINK" I have something to say. I don't care if "YOU THINK" I have nothing relevent the say. This is not your personal forum. And from the Number of "Reads" and "Replies" one would conclude that this is a relevant topic.To Chris Willis and other "Cloud Lovers"I'm glad that you love clouds and I really hope that Microsoft gives you some clouds. But, I live in Southern California (San Diego). We only had 3 1/2 inches of rain in the 2002 season. I don't know what clouds are. What I care about is scenery. Let's face it, the only reason anybody gets the flying bug is because we want to "go up there" to "look down here" and watch the World go by. Great clouds will make your Flight simming experience better. Great ground scenery will make mine better. I want to see the Hollywood Park racetrack disappear under the nose of Geofa's Debonair on short final to LAX not a cartoonish 3D object that's supposed to be the Old Laker Forum surrounded by "Autogen" buildings that aren't really there.Sskoup

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"Let's face it, the only reason anybody gets the flying bug is because we want to "go up there" to "look down here" and watch the World go by."This does not count for me. Sure, looking down is nice, but being in control of a complex machine is what gave me the bug. Scenery is important to me as it is affecting the feeling of 'being there'. However, I really got the flying bug once I started using real weather addons. Flying over my home country (Netherlands) for years is nice. But it gets challenging and exciting once the weather is coming into it. Hardly any approach is the same, aspecially in the varying Dutch weather scene. From what I've heard and read weather is one of the most important factors in real aviation. To me the weather SYSTEM is very important. The graphical presentation again adds a lot to 'being there'. So yes, I'm looking forward to fly through the real Dutch skies in FS2004. That alone is sufficient reason for me to buy FS2004. Let's hope I do not get disappointed ;-) I will be scanning for reviews though. I assume the European release will be later than US...? :-( Gives me some time the make my final decision.

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