need more info on ariane 737 analogue panel

[Guest]

>Again please excuse my cynical approach Tino, but do you have>a manual from Ariane that's not been published yet? Do you by>any chance work for Ariane?>>Toni. Toni, (coincident our name has the same letters),I DO NOT work for Ariane but I do have a manual not published yet. I received it as I am a reviewer for the Dutch flightsim magazine Flight!zone. You can be right about no airline will fly a 737 without an FMC today. It is a modification or upgrade Boeing made on all 737's as far as I know. What I understand from the manual and the mails I received from Ariane, they will also offer an upgrade with FMC in the future, but no date set yet.Don't know if the upgrade is free or you will have to pay for it, that is a question only Ariane is able to answer on. But I know they are working on a FMC for the panel. They will have to develop a complete new FMC because of copyrights on the excisting. Eurowings pro made a deal, I think, with Fligt1 for the use of their FMC of the Dreamfleet panel. Eurowings is useing a FMC in their Airbus, but it isn't an FMC used in Airbus planes. I don't know what is better, not having a FMC or having a FMC not used in the real thing....I hope I have answered your question with this posting. Tino

[Guest]

RyanAIR has -200 and -800 as far as I can see in the JP Airlinefleets 2001/02. The book is not the most recent so they can have some other types too by now. Thank you for your reply.Tino

[Hollywood 1]

Ryanair has only -200 -800. No -300cheersMartin

[Guest crashing_pilot]

hi Tino,just read this,and wanted to say i love the flight!zone magazine...keep it comin'!! :-approve

[Guest]

I got the Ariane panel a good while back and I am very happy with it.I have read all the stuff about Ariane but I have never had a problem with it. It works great with all the aircraft I put it in. It is not a real systems panel or anything but to go in the FFX 737-200 or something u will be very happy with it. Oh and 1 more thing I think this has been mentioned but it will have a add on FMC sometime in the near future.

[Guest Macs]

Its no the fact of not having the FMC now, Its the fact that ARIANE will do doubt charge very high prices for this Upgrade. A lot of people are referring to the addition of the FMC as an update-new features=UPGRADERegardsJohnhttp://www.bavirtual.co.ukP 2.53 GHZ512 RAMWINXPGFORCE 4 128MB Ti4600http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg

[Guest]

That is the way it is working in real live too! Tino

[Guest CYOW_pilot]

My information might be a bit dated, but "West Jet" here in Canada was (is?) operating their 737-200's without an FMS as recently as 18 months ago.Kevin in CYOW

[gosta 0]

Hi there,FMC or not, there are a few points to make about this panel - first, the autopilot works like the default MS one, i.e. ALT HOLD and V/S are coupled, so when you press either, your plane will go into an 1800fpm climb/descent. That's not how it is in real life. But even more worrying is the fact that IFR flying is extremely difficult in most areas of the world, as the navigation instruments appear to be following true heading, rather than magnetic.Cheers,Gosta.http://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg

[Chris Boyce 5]

You are correct. Westjet and the Air Canada/ex Canadian 737-200's do not have an FMS . The only 200's with an FMS flew with Canadian North and I think only 2 were equipped with it. Chris

[Guest]

Gosta,i have relayed your post to Ariane, just to get a comment from them. Below I will paste a copy of their answer on your items. I know this might get me of the forum, just because I support Ariane, as they support me on their products. I think there is a lot of bad posts about Ariane. Most of the items mentioned in the posts here on the forum are a long time ago. The information below is just a copy and paste of the answer I got from Ariane. If someone should have trouble with a Ariane product, just e-mail them and I am sure they will solve the problems as quick as possible.To make things strait, I am NOT connected to Ariane,, I am just a happy Ariane 737 pilot.Here is the answer of Ariane:*******FIrst, Gostas terminology is wrong. By calling the section of the panel the "autopilot" he is referring to a FUNCTION on the panel which has TWO switches on our panel and ONE on the MS default panel MCP. If he is referring to the full MCP or AFDS then he should say MCP or AFDS.Our "official position" on Gostas comments is that our MCP does not operate like the default one. Gostas is trying to say it is like the default one and it is not like the MS default "autopilot" for a number of important reasons. On the Default MS Panel the A/P is represented as a single channel.On the Ariane Panel it is featured (and fully animated) as a Dual Channel (Simulated).If we are to elaborate a little more about the differences to our MCP compared to that of the default MCP then there are a number of very great differences in operation and features.There is not an N1 button. Neither is it linked to the two knobs on the EICAS N1 gauges to control procedures such as ECON take off and CRZ (where, on our panel, you can set the autothrottle to command the N1 output percentage rating as opposed to the IAS (speed) - that feature is not on the default MCP at all). There is no VOC LOC and no C/O on the default MS "autopilot" (sic-Gostas). On the MS default MCP panel when you select A/P, you can only select CMD (command) mode and the wing leveller (LVL) comes on by default which is not what a real AP does in the real 737 (NB: if Gostas says MS is wrong - that is something Gostas has to address to MS and not to infer blame on us).Our panel does not engage the LVL when the A/P is set in CMD mode at all and does not engage the ALT of the V/S at all. We actually feature two modes: CWS and CMD (simulated) but CWS is not coded to work yet (we are working on it).For everyone's info, CMD enables all command modes for the AFDS in addition to the A/P CWS operation. By selecting the second A/P in CMD it will disegange the first unless in APP mode (working on that). In CWS mode, the AP pitch and roll are controlled through the application of the control wheel and column pressures (difficult to simulate pressure in FS but we are working on that too). If attitudes exceed A/P limits, the A/P will return to attitude limits when and at the point that the control presure is released. F/Ds can be operated in CMD modes while the A/P is engaged in CWS (any A/P toggle).As we told our customers we would, we will be uploading some major changes to the panel. There will be a "Technical Upgrade Pack" and a "Service Pack". Both will address a number of issues. The Tech Upgrade will add items like LVL CNGE to the panel for further realism (and no, MS does not feature LVL CHNGE on its MCP either but we do now) :()Operation (or not) of navigation instruments is not controlled by the panel/MCP code at all. It doesn't matter what panel you have; if the aircraft.cfg is not configured correctly to capture or manage the settings, you can load or use any panel you like and it will not function properly.What the information above hopefully does is to prove that what a person has said, with all due respect, is wrong and said out of turn. If there are issues with any of our products, we would ask that those issues be fairly addressed to us first, before bringing them to the forum for people to make statements, which infer on our behalf that which we do not support and rightly condone.For the forum's information, the TCAS II Cockpit System Program is one that is an ongoing program (much the same as Boeing's 737 aircraft have been for over 50 years). We hope to be improving what we have over time like every developer might do.We admit that we have had to provide updates to our configurations but that is no different from any other developer. As a matter of fact (while we discuss facts) what we are uploading this weekend is a major update (version 1.5 of another free Ariane update) to the aircraft's configuration that corrects and enhances many of the issues surrounding navigation, ILS capture (G/S, not localizer). It also adds some superb and further advanced handling characteristics that draw the 300 closer to our goal of 99.999% realism.If we happen to be wrong with anything, (we are all human) we apologise and would like to make it known that we will do all we can to correct any issues as soon as possible.*******ARIANE STUDIOSSo far the post of Ariane on this, further they are suggesting Gosta might have an older version of the panel which had some of the items mentioned. With the new TCAS II panel this all is solved. Again, if you have problems or other issues on a product of Ariane, just e-mail them just like I did and you will be helped.

[gosta 0]

Hi Tino,thanks for taking the trouble and posting the reply. And I don't think informative posts will get you banned from the forum :).Interesting response, but they missed my point. Apart from implying that I didn't have a clue what I was talking about (no point explaining the full function of an autoflight system in a 3-line forum post), they did not respond to the one point I made about the operation of the A/P (or AFDS - as far as I'm aware, MCP refers to the manual control panel, i.e. the user interface of the autoflight system), i.e. that upon engaging V/S, both V/S and ALT lights come on and the aircraft defaults to a climb rate of 1800 fpm. I know the rate can be changed in the aircraft.cfg, but I was unsuccessful in getting the panel to use the current V/S (which is what the real plane would do, and has been implemented in a lot of add-ons, like 767PIC, PSS, Dreamfleet, RFP 747, just to name a few). And in the Ariane panel, altitude hold does not work independently from V/S.>>Our panel does not engage the LVL when the A/P is set in CMD mode at all and does not engage the ALT of the V/S at all.<< I never said that.>> We actually feature two modes: CWS and CMD (simulated) but CWS is not coded to work yet (we are working on it).<>Operation (or not) of navigation instruments is not controlled by the panel/MCP code at all. It doesn't matter what panel you have; if the aircraft.cfg is not configured correctly to capture or manage the settings, you can load or use any panel you like and it will not function properly.<http://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg

[Guest]

You are invited to contact Ariane on ArianeStudios@aol.com to discuss the items. When I have to pass all the information between you and Ariane, I am an oldfashioned mailman ;-) I think it would be fair too, to discuss this directly, and probably it will result in a even better panel!I realy hope you contact Ariane about it.(I will pass your post this time to Ariane.)Tino

[Guest]

i.e. that upon engaging>V/S, both V/S and ALT lights come on and the aircraft defaults>to a climb rate of 1800 fpm. >With me, when pushing the V/S button while in manual flight, the vs jumps to 100 - or + (depending on what alt. I have selected, and not directly to the 1800 you mention. Probably I do something different or wrong.Thank you anyway for your reply, by this we can make add-ons better I think.

[gosta 0]

Hi Tino,you can set the default V/S in the autopilot section in the aircraft.cfg. But it shouldn't be using any pre-set speed, but instead should set the climb/descent rate to your current rate.Cheers,Gosta.http://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg