What is the problem with this flightplan?

[martinlest2 58]

For some reason, this flightplan (below, created by FSNav) won't load into FS9. Can anyone see why? Is it something to do with the fact that it crosses over the North Pole? I can't even get the simple departure/destination plan (further below) to load. Any information welcome! Thanks.Martin -------------------------------------[flightplan]title=PANC to EFHKdescription=PANC, EFHKtype=IFRroutetype=1cruising_altitude=38000departure_id=PANC, N61* 10.46', W149* 59.78', +000150.92departure_position=GATE N 5destination_id=EFHK, N60* 19.03', E24* 57.80', +000167.32departure_name=Stevens Anchorage Intldestination_name=Vantaawaypoint.0=PANC, A, N61* 10.46', W149* 59.78', +000150.92,waypoint.1=BGQ, V, N61* 34.17', W149* 58.03', +000000.00,waypoint.2=TKA, V, N62* 17.92', W150* 6.34', +000000.00,waypoint.3=ENN37, I, N64* 38.88', W150* 30.13', +000000.00,waypoint.4=66N51, I, N66* 0.00', W151* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.5=BTT, V, N66* 54.30', W151* 32.15', +000000.00,waypoint.6=AKP, N, N68* 8.20', W151* 44.65', +000000.00,waypoint.7=UMT, N, N69* 22.18', W152* 8.30', +000000.00,waypoint.8=CEDUN, I, N70* 21.74', W151* 43.21', +000000.00,waypoint.9=72N52, I, N72* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.10=73N52, I, N73* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.11=74N52, I, N74* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.12=75N52, I, N75* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.13=76N52, I, N76* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.14=77N52, I, N77* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.15=78N52, I, N78* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.16=79N52, I, N79* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.17=80N52, I, N80* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.18=81N52, I, N81* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.19=82N52, I, N82* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.20=83N52, I, N83* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.21=84N52, I, N84* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.22=85N52, I, N85* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.23=86N52, I, N86* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.24=87N52, I, N87* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.25=88N52, I, N88* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.26=89N52, I, N89* 0.00', W152* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.27=NPole, I, N90* 0.00', E78* 2.55', +000000.00,waypoint.28=8925E, I, N89* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.29=8825E, I, N88* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.30=8725E, I, N87* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.31=8625E, I, N86* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.32=8525E, I, N85* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.33=8425E, I, N84* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.34=8325E, I, N83* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.35=8225E, I, N82* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.36=8125E, I, N81* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.37=8025E, I, N80* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.38=7925E, I, N79* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.39=7825E, I, N78* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.40=7725E, I, N77* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.41=7625E, I, N76* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.42=7525E, I, N75* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.43=7425E, I, N74* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.44=7325E, I, N73* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.45=7225E, I, N72* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.46=7125E, I, N71* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.47=BNK, V, N70* 3.93', E24* 58.19', +000000.00,waypoint.48=6925E, I, N69* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.49=L, N, N67* 43.27', E24* 50.02', +000000.00,waypoint.50=PA, N, N66* 28.15', E25* 38.93', +000000.00,waypoint.51=KARHU, I, N65* 18.67', E25* 27.68', +000000.00,waypoint.52=Y, N, N64* 2.36', E24* 44.30', +000000.00,waypoint.53=6325E, I, N63* 0.00', E25* 0.00', +000000.00,waypoint.54=HAL, V, N61* 51.28', E24* 48.16', +000000.00,waypoint.55=ANT, V, N60* 51.78', E25* 7.61', +000000.00,waypoint.56=EFHK, A, N60* 19.03', E24* 57.80', +000167.32,----------------------------------------------------------------------[flightplan]title=PANC to EFHKdescription=PANC, EFHKtype=IFRroutetype=1cruising_altitude=38000departure_id=PANC, N61* 10.46', W149* 59.78', +000150.92departure_position=GATE G 12destination_id=EFHK, N60* 19.03', E24* 57.80', +000167.32departure_name=Stevens Anchorage Intldestination_name=Vantaawaypoint.0=PANC, A, N61* 10.46', W149* 59.78', +000150.92,waypoint.1=EFHK, A, N60* 19.03', E24* 57.80', +000167.32,

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

Even if you can get that plan loaded you'd be wasting your time flying it. Once you get above 70N you'll find that the aircraft has a lot of trouble keeping a heading to the next waypoint.I once tried flying Concorde from St Petersburg (Russia) to Anchorage routing to around 85N and it just flew sideways at Mach 2! :( The FS9 world is not round hence why you cannot fly over the poles. But in reality you can't either because of the huge magnetic variation. Stick to 70N as a maximum and you'll be fine.

[martinlest2 58]

Hi. I know that on the ground things are very odd up there in the far north, and I avoid going there in FS, but I thought things would be OK at 40000'. Perhaps not - in several years of flying FS I don't think I ever tried flying over the poles before.But still can't fathom why the plan won't load..M.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

Hi. I know that on the ground things are very odd up there in the far north, and I avoid going there in FS, but I thought things would be OK at 40000'. Perhaps not - in several years of flying FS I don't think I ever tried flying over the poles before.

LOL! Magnetic variation is the same whatever your altitude. :(

But still can't fathom why the plan won't load..M.

Try removing waypoint 27. Do you get an error message?

[windycloud 30]

Even if you can get that plan loaded you'd be wasting your time flying it. Once you get above 70N you'll find that the aircraft has a lot of trouble keeping a heading to the next waypoint.I once tried flying Concorde from St Petersburg (Russia) to Anchorage routing to around 85N and it just flew sideways at Mach 2! :( The FS9 world is not round hence why you cannot fly over the poles. But in reality you can't either because of the huge magnetic variation. Stick to 70N as a maximum and you'll be fine.

That's the most informative and fun reply I've read lately. Is FSX any better with this?Jason

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

That's the most informative and fun reply I've read lately. Is FSX any better with this?Jason

I'm pleased I brought a smile to your face. :( I haven't tried it in FSX for two reasons - sub-sonic aircraft are way too slow for flights of that distance and I rarely fly FSX preferring the higher fps of FS9. Maybe when Concorde is available for FSX I might be tempted but there's no sign of one.Aviation took a huge step backwards on 24 October 2003 - the last scheduled Concorde flight. From Mach 2.02 back to Mach 0.86 :(

[WarpD 824]

I dunno... the Citation X does better than .86 :(

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

I dunno... the Citation X does better than .86 :(

:( M0.87 perhaps? :(

[martinlest2 58]

Yes, I'd tried removing the NPole waypoint - as I said in the original post, I can't even get the second flight plan, which shows only departure and destination, to load in to FS (I also tried it on a second PC which has FS9 'out of the box' (no addons) installed, which I keep for 'testing' purposes: It refuses to load there too). Yes, I was expecting strange things to happen in FS that far north, they always do. But it's the fact that the flight plans won't load that is mystifying me. They look fine from an FS syntax point of view..M. BTW, the official Mach limit for Citation X is 0.92, with a maximum cruise altitude of 51,000'. Pretty impressive (though I of course agree about the huge backward step from M2.02 after 2003).M

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

Yes, I'd tried removing the NPole waypoint - as I said in the original post, I can't even get the second flight plan, which shows only departure and destination, to load in to FS (I also tried it on a second PC which has FS9 'out of the box' (no addons) installed, which I keep for 'testing' purposes: It refuses to load there too). Yes, I was expecting strange things to happen in FS that far north, they always do. But it's the fact that the flight plans won't load that is mystifying me. They look fine from an FS syntax point of view..

Okay. In these situations supply the absolute minimum and then build up the plan until you hit the problem. Include both airports and just one waypoint. If that doesn't work then try changing one of the airports and add a suitable waypoint. If it does work keep addding waypoints.

BTW, the official Mach limit for Citation X is 0.92, with a maximum cruise altitude of 51,000'. Pretty impressive (though I of course agree about the huge backward step from M2.02 after 2003).

That's an excellent performance from such a small aircraft. With a following wind you might even break the sound barrier but I suppose there isn't that much wind around at FL510.

[martinlest2 58]

But isn't it a bit odd Ray that I only have the departure airports and destinations airports and the plan still won't load, even on a PC with a 'clean' install of FS9. Maybe I'll never find out what the problem is here ..At 51000' you could just be in the upper limits of the jetstream - if you're heading in the right direction that'd get you to Mach 1.0 perhaps, though I think your aircraft would problem break up first!M. :-)

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

But isn't it a bit odd Ray that I only have the departure airports and destinations airports and the plan still won't load, even on a PC with a 'clean' install of FS9. Maybe I'll never find out what the problem is here ..At 51000' you could just be in the upper limits of the jetstream - if you're heading in the right direction that'd get you to Mach 1.0 perhaps, though I think your aircraft would problem break up first!M. :-)

Martin,Some detective work is required. Can you create and load ANY flight plans or is it just PANC-EFHK? Try EGLL-PHNL which will take you fairly close to the Pole. If you can't load any plan it suggests a bad install and I'd recommend uninstalling and reinstalling ensuring you apply the 9.1 patch.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

Martin,I tried loading the plan you supplied but no waypoints made it into the FS9 plan. So I tried creating one from scratch using the planner. After entering PANC for the departure and EFHK for arrival I pressed Find Route and FS couldn't build one.I can only assume that it won't build a plan if it can't be flown. As I said earlier the FS earth is not round. Think of it as a globe with the top and bottom sliced off making that area unnavigable.If you build one in FSNav with waypoints that go no further than 70N that should work.

[martinlest2 58]

Most flightplans work fine - I think you must be right that one that crosses so near to the North Pole isn't accepted. Shame for any Finns wanting to holiday in Alaska, but there you are. At least I know it's not some problem with my setup,M.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

Shame for any Finns wanting to holiday in Alaska

My nomination for the world's shortest queue! :( The main thing is, your FS setup is fine.