What would happen if

[byork 2,259]

Years and years ago I remember my first Into flight.I had a lot of Flightsim experience under my belt at the time.However, if the instructor had the passed out, would I have been able to land the plane?Honestly, it probably would have been a crash landing.Flying in a real 172 "feels" so different from doing it on a desktop computer. That, and the fact the mechanical handling of things like the throttle lever and mixture are things that FS at that time didn't really show (I know the newer versions of FS show the throttle lever better, but I digress).So I recall having to learn how to use the throttle.So I'm just thankful that my instructor way back then didn't pass out... or it would have ended badly I'm sure :( Cheers,

[N400QW 205]

In FS you SIMULATE a Takeoff, Pattern, Landing. You have not yet experienced a flight envelope yet.The real thing brings you face to face with situations and emotions that you really have never experienced, merely SIMULATED.While it is helpful to have SIMULATED every move it's difficult to describe the emotional and sensory input you will experience.I remember clearly the mixed emotions of joy and fear on my first solo flight. Cleared the ground and the realization set in that my instructor was not right seat and the only good outcome would have to be my doing.This was followed by extreme sense of happiness and feeling of accomplishment as I executed everything that my training had prepared me for. :(

[Guest Boeing Skunk Works]

Approach stalls - increasing flaps from 30 to 40 degrees on an older C150 will bring your airspeed from 70 indicated to about 40 in a couple of seconds if you don't lower the nose significantly and quickly.I remember those. Our school had two that had 40

[jfri 42]

A very, very astute student of FS, and an instructor keeping you and the aircraft well inside your respective envelopes ... can ... produce a successful outcome. However, the opportunities for disaster - even in a C150/152 - are limitless. Considerations include:Departure stalls - caused by - you-name-it - over-rotating, airspeed mismanagement, turning cross-wind, simple distractions, etc.Losing sight of the runway - I actually observed a student get lost on downwind, on her first solo, and land 40 miles away.Approach stalls - increasing flaps from 30 to 40 degrees on an older C150 will bring your airspeed from 70 indicated to about 40 in a couple of seconds if you don't lower the nose significantly and quickly. Finding yourself behind the power curve - not enough available power with flaps extended to overcome your sink rate - usually associated with an angle-of-attack situation. Without some altitude to trade for energy, you will ride that one to the ground. Overshooting final and increasing your bank angle may well result in a stall-spin event that rarely has a happy ending. Confusing the pitch/power relationship on final will have you porpoising all over the sky, possibly terminating with blown tires and a buckled firewall.These are all things that happen to seasoned pilots (watch the arrivals at Oshkosh or Sun n' Fun some time and you'll see this and much, much more. The point is - given the right circumstances and the right assistance, the exceptional FS pilot will be successful. But its a very long shot that even that individual would pilot the airplane to a successful conclusion alone. Not saying it can't be done - just statistically a bad bet. There's a reason for the 20 hours minimum of dual instruction and 20 hours of solo flight (and usually much more) required prior to a PPL check ride.That being said though, I believe the FS pilot has an unquestionable head-start. And as Michael indicated, the right attitude and frame-of-mind will put you another leg-up on the uninitiated when you begin formal training.Regards,Leon

Regarding departure stalls. In Fs I push forward on the stick to keep the speed up and would try the same in real life. Approach stall. Is a C150 very different from C172? In Fs9 I remember the flaps having two notches and the last one don't affect the speed in the way you describe it. Does F1 C172 in FS9 behaves incorrectly here?

[lcseale53 0]

Regarding departure stalls. In Fs I push forward on the stick to keep the speed up and would try the same in real life. Approach stall. Is a C150 very different from C172? In Fs9 I remember the flaps having two notches and the last one don't affect the speed in the way you describe it. Does F1 C172 in FS9 behaves incorrectly here?

On take-off just rotate at the correct speed and follow the planned climb profile - adjust pitch as necessary.The C150 and the earlier C172s (and that may have been a function of model number as well) had 40 degrees of flap travel. This caused trouble with inattentive pilots, and the airplanes were very difficult to manage in a cross-wind with full flap extension. The cure was to limit flap travel to 30 degrees on later models.Full 40 degree flap extension on my C206 requires cruise power setting on final to maintain the glide slope. I only use the full 40 if clearing an obstacle into a short field. With power off in that configuration the descent angle is obscene. This is a great short-coming with the Carenado C206 flight model. It's a beautiful model but the behavior is pretty unrealistic from a 'numbers' standpoint.Leon

[fsx_missionguy 0]

Having recently done this, I can say that Microsoft Flight Simulator definitely prepares you very well for the mechanics of flying a Cessna 172, things like knowing not to try to lift off until your speed is right ... knowing which window to look out of to see your airport in the pattern ... knowing that when you're low on approach, the thing to do is to add power and not to pitch up with the yoke ... those sorts of things. How to trim the aircraft to take pressure off the yoke once you've established your altitude. The basics of flying.What I found most interesting about my real life flight experience was the feeling provided by the real world atmosphere. It almost felt like the airplane was swimming in water the way it would move around as the wind pushed it slightly up on one wing, or pushed the nose to the left or right. It reminded me of the first time I drove an automobile and learned for the first time just how much a car moves around in its lane even though it appears to be driving in a straight line.In a car, your automobile is always moving around in its lane and subtly changing speeds (usually only in two degrees of motion). You really don't notice this much until you're behind the wheel with total control. After you drive a car for some time, you learn how much the car can move before you need to correct, and these little small corrections become second nature, such that say a year after you've been driving, you no longer hardly even notice how your body and brain are coordinating corrective activities in the background while you're hurtling down the interstate at 75 miles per hour eating a hamburger and fiddling with the radio not even hardly paying attention to the road.The feeling I got when I experienced a real Cessna flight was almost exactly like this. It took me back to my first day of driving, when I felt I had to concentrate very heavily to correct any slight change in direction. But by the end of my first flight, I had overcome this tendency, and began "feeling" the wind, and began to be able to judge when it would push me off course if I did not correct, and when it wouldn't. It's that sort of sensation that Flight Simulator hasn't yet captured in my view, although I believe one day it will.Finally, I will add this: I had no fear and had a lot of confidence. I did not suffer from "information overload." All the instruments were exactly where I expected they'd be. I knew exactly what was happening as we turned on final. I knew exactly where to look for the PAPI and what to do to correct. My CFI put his hands on the yoke for the last 10 feet of the landing (he said they are required to), but other than that, he felt no need to take control of the aircraft - and he said that was not uncommon for people who have experience with Microsoft Flight Simulator.Having some experience now in both Flight Simulator and in the real world, I have a much greater appreciation for the excellent job that the ACES group did with Flight Simulator X. It is "as real as it gets" without being ... well ... real.

[lsteere 0]

It is one thing to do everything right while sitting in the chair in front of your PC and completely different to repeat the same thing in real aircraft alone. I recall from my early days of training for PPL - it was one thing to do a good landing while your instructor was next to you and quite different than actually do it alone. The psychological gap between simming and real thing is even larger.

I will never forget my first solo! We had just returned from the practice area and my instructor said I was ready. I knew that if I spent any time thinking about it, I'd get my nerves worked up and I'd put the solo off till next time. I also knew that I had the mechanics of flying and landing down very well, so I decided to go for it. I would do a few touch and go's and call it a day. The first few minutes of my solo I was so busy taxiing, communicating with the tower, and preparing for takeoff that I didn't have time to get nervous. Before I knew it I was sitting at the end of the runway cleared to go. I felt good, so I gave it full throttle and off I went. Shortly after takeoff and still feeling good I prepared for a right hand turn to stay in the pattern. I looked left, then I look right. Suddenly I noticed there was a big vacant spot where the instructor had always been. The reality that I was flying the plane alone with no backup hit me like a bolt of lightning - I'm sure my face turned a few shades whiter than normal. All I wanted to do at that moment was get the plane back on the ground ASAP. By the time I completed the pattern and greased the landing my nerves had settled down quite a bit so I decided to do another circuit. I completed the three touch and go's that I had planned and felt a little better and more confident after each one. You are absolutely right. There is a "psychological gap" between simming and real life. All that confidence you have when flying the simulator can vanish in an instant in real life when your nerves come into play.

[Johan_Dees 84]

We simmers might have the same feeling if MS had added "format-c on crash" or something.:-)

[Macsm 0]

With no experience in an actual aircraft, it's the unexpected things that will kill you.

I have to agree with that one. There are still limitations on what flight sims can offer, and that other stuff not available in sims is the one that can get you in trouble. I am not even sure if the big jet CAT# sims can simulate some of this stuff. The airplane can quickly get away from you if you do not react properly, even in very simple maneuvers. Think of riding a bicycle as an example, a rather simple and straightforward process, but try to teach it to someone who has never done it, and I can guarantee you they will fall more than once...They are not going through the air at more than 100 mph while doing this though...regards,Macs

[fsx_missionguy 0]

We simmers might have the same feeling if MS had added "format-c on crash" or something.:-)

Until SP1 came out, they had this. :(

[Guest Rockcliffe]

We simmers might have the same feeling if MS had added "format-c on crash" or something.:-)

that's hilarious!

[lsteere 0]

We simmers might have the same feeling if MS had added "format-c on crash" or something.:-)

Or maybe wire up an M80 to the seat of your flight chair. There's a chance you'll survive but you probably won't be undamaged ;-) Great idea for a third party add-on. It would certainly help bridge that psychological gap.

[jfri 42]

Having recently done this, I can say that Microsoft Flight Simulator definitely prepares you very well for the mechanics of flying a Cessna 172, things like knowing not to try to lift off until your speed is right ... knowing which window to look out of to see your airport in the pattern ... knowing that when you're low on approach, the thing to do is to add power and not to pitch up with the yoke ... those sorts of things. How to trim the aircraft to take pressure off the yoke once you've established your altitude. The basics of flying.What I found most interesting about my real life flight experience was the feeling provided by the real world atmosphere. It almost felt like the airplane was swimming in water the way it would move around as the wind pushed it slightly up on one wing, or pushed the nose to the left or right. It reminded me of the first time I drove an automobile and learned for the first time just how much a car moves around in its lane even though it appears to be driving in a straight line.In a car, your automobile is always moving around in its lane and subtly changing speeds (usually only in two degrees of motion). You really don't notice this much until you're behind the wheel with total control. After you drive a car for some time, you learn how much the car can move before you need to correct, and these little small corrections become second nature, such that say a year after you've been driving, you no longer hardly even notice how your body and brain are coordinating corrective activities in the background while you're hurtling down the interstate at 75 miles per hour eating a hamburger and fiddling with the radio not even hardly paying attention to the road.The feeling I got when I experienced a real Cessna flight was almost exactly like this. It took me back to my first day of driving, when I felt I had to concentrate very heavily to correct any slight change in direction. But by the end of my first flight, I had overcome this tendency, and began "feeling" the wind, and began to be able to judge when it would push me off course if I did not correct, and when it wouldn't. It's that sort of sensation that Flight Simulator hasn't yet captured in my view, although I believe one day it will.Finally, I will add this: I had no fear and had a lot of confidence. I did not suffer from "information overload." All the instruments were exactly where I expected they'd be. I knew exactly what was happening as we turned on final. I knew exactly where to look for the PAPI and what to do to correct. My CFI put his hands on the yoke for the last 10 feet of the landing (he said they are required to), but other than that, he felt no need to take control of the aircraft - and he said that was not uncommon for people who have experience with Microsoft Flight Simulator.Having some experience now in both Flight Simulator and in the real world, I have a much greater appreciation for the excellent job that the ACES group did with Flight Simulator X. It is "as real as it gets" without being ... well ... real.

If I say FS9 instead of FSX how would that change your answer?

[Cessnaflyer 56]

If I say FS9 instead of FSX how would that change your answer?

Nothing because they are the same thing in regards to flight model

[red1 0]

What I found most interesting about my real life flight experience was the feeling provided by the real world atmosphere. It almost felt like the airplane was swimming in water the way it would move around as the wind pushed it slightly up on one wing, or pushed the nose to the left or right. It reminded me of the first time I drove an automobile and learned for the first time just how much a car moves around in its lane even though it appears to be driving in a straight line.

I've been flying flight sim since Flight Sim for Windows 95 (I'm currently 20, so tahts a long time for me). The other week I got my first chance to go up in a GA plane. A friend of a friend had got his PPL and invited me for a ride. It was a Piper Warrior.What missionguy says is exactly the first thing I thought of. The plane was moving EVERYWHERE in every direction from the moment we took off. It was small subtle movement, but you can def. feel them, and it was a calm day. Thats the feeling the sim lacks, for obvious reasons.Besides that..in the Sim I have carenados piper add-on planes..and I was well prepared with the instrumentation and control of the warrior. I got the fly around, and once the nerves settled down, I do believe I could have landed safely with the friend by my side...alone...I'm not too sure..