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An Apology to the Hobby Itself.

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'Tis so true Michael. After I posted it I thought it sounded like all the 737's I've downloaded. And I've actually flown 4-5 of them :-) .Trip

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It must have been in the weather or something. A couple of weeks ago I came to same conclusion as the first poster. What I did after that was going into the lessons from FS2002 again. I did some of them, but never the exams.I downloaded the beechcraft baron 58 because KLM uses this one for their students.So I started all over again, and this time for real!Happy simming!

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Jonathan,Nice thread; describes my attitude towards FS exactly :-)But I also think that the great thing about MSFS: there's lot of different aspects about the hobby that you can enjoy (which includes making your own addons, be it controllers, scenery, panels, gauges, or whatever). There's even people that make it a hobby just to tweak their PC and flightsim for best performance, to the extend that they hardly ever have time to fly :-)So good luck in your focussing on mastering flying itself.With an bit of friendly advice: stay away from FS2004 for at least a year, otherwise you'll find yourself in the same vicious circle again :-). I know I will ...Cheers, Rob

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Jonathan,Along with you and Ferry, I have just recently begun doing the same thing. I have used FS2K, FlyII, and now FS2K2 but I really only used them as toys, similar to a radio control airplane (that I could crawl into the cockpit of). I've now started doing the lessons and am learning to fly (simulated-style).However, the reason I'm at this point is because I finally don't have hiccups and stutters. Those few times I tried lessons or adventures before, the stutters would frustrate me too much (even if they were short and not too frequent). I even quit flying altogether for 5 or 6 months until I could afford a better computer (and lost my Phil@KSMF log-in here at AVSIM). Once I got a better machine (and my others weren't cheap or bad, only inadequate for MSFS2K2) and got the settings and tweaks set so that I had fluid and smooth displays, it was like someone had quit grating their nails on the chalkboard, so to speak.I compare it to learning to dance (and that comparison could be carried a long way!). If you were learning to dance and the record kept skipping, would you continue the lesson?PhilP4 2.4768MB RAMATI 9700Proand that is what it took to eliminate the stutters for me.

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This is a great thread, and thanks to Jonathan for getting us thinking about this topic.I have the opposite problem. I fly a C172SP every other weeekend in real life, and since I'm attempting to gain currency for my instrument rating, most of my flights are VFR cross-country (the FAA states must exceed 50nm). I do all these calculations with my trusty E6B and my electronic flight computer; then when I can get a valid TAF or area forecast (usually the day before), I'll actually fly the flight on FS with winds as predicted and using all those flight planning tools.My problem is that I never get away from the Denver area to explore the rest of the country. I'm either flying these real cross-countries for a real flight, or if I jump into a B737 or B767, I'll restrict myself to starting in Denver as that's where I live. A short flight to MKC or STL, or to SLC, is great. But then what to do? I know that real airliners don't hop across the country in 1 or 2 hour flights, so I fly back to DEN. I don't start anywhere other then DEN, as I don't live anywhere else :). I think I need to let go of some of the reality that appears to be imposing limitations on where I fly. There's a whole world of great scenery out there for many parts of the world.Back to the original post: If anyone wants help with any flight planning for VFR flights, please don't hesitate to e-mail me.Thanks,Bruce.

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>>I used to do the online thing back in the SATCO days, and made>about 4 or 5 successful flights. I bluffed my way through>them, letting Otto control the plane, even in the phases of>flight when I should have been the PIC. >Jonathan things have progressed big time since then.Give it a try at http://vatsim.netWith VATSIM you can have the most realistic flights (IFR or VFR).Forget Artificial Inteligence when it comes to the last part of the trilogy "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate"Kyprianos Biris :-cool[link:avsim.com/greece/hvacc]Hellenic vACChttp://vatsim-eur.org/images/VATSIM-EURs.gifhttp://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg


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Bruce, You have no idea how similar that sounds to me, as far as self-imposed limits. While I'm not a real world pilot such as yourself, I do tend to gravitate around Atlanta as my jump-off point. Whereas you pre-fly your real world flights, I tend to post-fly those that I've taken as a passenger. Recently, I flew to Seattle from Atlanta, back in February, and it was that flight that made me go out and finally buy FS2K2. (I'd long since shelved my copy of FS2k). I set up both flights, using the Continental 737 for the leg from KATL to KIAH, then got myself a Conti 757-200 for the leg on to KSEA. For the return trip, it was the Delta 757-200 (in current colors, of course!). I even set my plans to as close as the routes as the real flights as I could, based on the routing run-down given by the captain during the "We'll be getting up to our cruise altitude of 37 thousand in just a few moments, etc...." breifing, combined with the established airways. The sad part of all this? I set it up to be completely automated, complete with Autoland, and went out to do yardwork. Am I nuts? There was -no- point to it! :-lolAnyway, good to hear I'm not alone with some of my other Flight Sim quirks. :)Take care!Jonathan D.KATL

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Kyprianos,Thank you for the warm invitation to join you guys. I will eventually, but I'd like to get a broadband connection to do voice, and to keep my ping down. Of course, I also want to be better prepared for unexpected surprises from the ATC. ;)Give me time... you'll see me soon enough. Just be prepared to lose some hair. :-lolCheers,Jonathan D.KATL

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This is most likely at the URL above, however:Does one need a fully duplex sould card to get RW working in order to communicate by voice? How about the use of text other then RW audio, is text still used much anymore?VATSIM sounds like it may be a great thing to get into, but my on-board sound chip is not fully duplex, I'm afraid.Thanks,Bruce.

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Bruce,While I'm no expert, I did stay at a Holiday Inn. ;) From what I understand, there will always be text for redundancy, and for those pilots who may be hearing impaired. I'd check in the VATSIM forum for specific details on where it's headed. I've only been a spectator, but those guys seem like a very nice and helpful bunch.As for full verses half duplex, I don't think that would be a problem. Full duplex is useful for voice activated mic keying, i.e. the mike is "keyed" when you speak. I believe this is a no-no on voice comms in Vatsim because any number of background noises could trip the mic and walk over someone else. So, basically, if you set up a button on your keyboard or joystick as your "Push to talk" (PTT) button, you should be okay.I'm not 100% sure on all of this, so if I've gotten something wrong, feel free to correct me. :)Regards,Jonathan D.KATL

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One thing you could do which might jump-start your aviation knowledge quest is to sign up for a private pilot ground school at a local flight club/FBO/whatever. It costs somewhere between $150-200 and is intended to guide student pilots through the various topics that are tested on the "written test", which along with a successful "practical test" (consisting of an oral exam and flight test with a designated examiner) will get you your real "wings" (after you've got all the needed flight hours of course). But, even if you don't want to go that far, this is still a good place to see how the various bits fit together - aircraft systems/instruments/engine, weather, air traffic control, airspace, the Federal Aviation Regulations, etc. My ground school was one 3 hour class per week, for twelve weeks. They also have weekend courses but IMO it's too much material to cover in that amount of time.I have been simming since, um, it seems like forever but I finally got my "license to fly" (the purists will tell you it's not a license, it's a certificate - at least in the US) in 2000. I find that I'm enjoying simming in FS a lot more now that I actually understand how all of these things fit together. And lately, due to budget constraints and other hobbies, I've been simming a heck of a lot more than flying the real thing!Being a "real pilot" also makes me appreciate FS2002's capabilities even more. We whine a lot about what's busted or missing, but really it is amazing just how much of the real flying experience they've been able to capture in this $80 program - especially when augmented with certain add-ons.Dave BlevinsPP-SEL/IA/PP-RW


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Hi Jonathan,Interesting phobia we all have going here!Of course, a part of what you describe is that you never really "go" anywhere in the sim. Even if I only fly 2 hours in the real plane, hardly getting me out of CO, it's some rural farming area, the folks talk and are different; chances are that it feels warmer and more humid, and other aspects of actually "going" somewhere (and the satisfaction that I was able to command a plane in US airspace and get there safely).Because none of that exists in our virtual world, we have to "make up" pieces of it to add to the simulation. One thing I'd love to see- and if RC3.1 already does this then I must go figure out how to add the feature- whether you're in the US or Europe (or almost anywhere), a 1-2 hour flight in a jet will take you somewhere where the people sound different when they talk (they may even talk a different language in Europe, and when speaking the universal language of English in aviation they have very very different accents). This would add something to flights in the sim.You speak of using auto-pilot, and that this makes you feel as if you've just blown away an hour or two. A couple of thoughts. If you use PIC, or another realistic and complex glass panel, computer sims work very well for these, and give you a skill over time that takes airline pilots a lot of time to learn. Just using a default panel and using the auto functions doesn't teach you much however.Also- I'm finding that FS offers a great way to learn instrument techniques. I've flown sims since '94, and real planes for a while too, but am finding the IR skills are really tough, and the sim can present a real challenge if you don't use the auto functions and keep tolerances in heading and altitude (and speed) to those that the FAA requires. Interesting thread!Bruce.

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Hi Jonathan,I just checked on the Roger Wilco site. Here's some info on RW:http://rogerwilco.gamespy.com/products/rw/index.htmlIt does confirm that one needs a full-duplex sound card.Let us know how you progress in your quest to fly the sim with more reality. As I oferred above, I'd be more than happy to help with any real world aviation knowledge that I can impart.Bruce.

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I came to the same conclusion back two years ago. Back then, I was using FS2000 because obviously, FS2002 had not been released. I made it though the private pilot portion and almost through the Instrument Rating part and stopped. Why, because it is a lot of work and I do this as a stress release. I think, however, what really got me side tracked was 767 PIC. However, I paln on finishing the Instrument, Commercial, and ATP portions. My goal is to complete all the lessons and then to study the 767 PIC manual and become proficient at it. Keep your nose to the grindstone and best of luck!Robb

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Great post Jonathan, although I do think you're being a bit hard on yourself! The beauty of flight sims is you can play them however you want: as a simulator, as a game, or anywhere in between. I've found myself taking a step back... back in the FS4 days I had a lot more time on my hands and tried to make my FS experience "as real as it gets" by studying real life procedures. These days I don't have much time to set up a flight plan and dig into the depths of the sim, so I usually just fly from point A to B, disregarding any of those pesky real-life rules and regulations. Heck, sometimes I get a bit impatient and take off from the taxiway! I don't feel as if I'm cheating myself because I'm still having fun, and that's what this hobby is all about!Don't disregard all of those years you didn't fly by the book... every bit of experience helps. I'm sure you'll have a much easier time now with the amount of FS experience you have than if you had dove into the technical side right from the beginning. I'm starting to dig into the sim a bit more, reading the POH's for the planes I fly the most and trying to fly them by the book. But I'm still not very interested in working with the ATC or following any airspace rules. I'd rather take off from point A, fly to point B as quickly as possible, and practice a nice crosswind landing :) If I ever decide to go for my private pilot

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