Winglets?

[Ant1981 0]

I am a relatively new user of the Level-D, but I have been involved with their forums long enough to know that their support people are not arogant and rude, but in fact very helpful and supportive. The General Discussion forum at Level-D is open to the public and will give any prospective buyer a good feel for the product. Additionally the complete operations Manual for the 767 is available as a free download for anyone. The product support forums and the excellent "Pilots helping Pilots - Flying the 767" forum are only open to registered buyers. I think this is quite fair. People using pirated copies of the product should not receive support.

If you go back several pages, you'll see an arrogant and rude response from support staff, something that I don't think there is any need for.

[DShutt 14]

...

[january 19]

...

Daryl- When I'm interested in buying a new model car, I wait for a year or so, then go to my local library and read thru' the Manufacturer's Service Bulletins, review the JD Power Survey of Initial Customer Satisfaction and study the LemonAid book. I do something similar with FS AddOns by studying the forums until the CD version is available - which signals final product maturity & stability.Can't do that for Level D 767. So I don't have this airplane. A pity because I really enjoyed 767 PIC. Alex Reid

[DShutt 14]

Alex,Yes, well, software is not a car... and at 40 to 55 bucks it's significantly cheaper.But, what Flight1 products do come with is a 30 day money back guarantee. Does Ford offer that?The Level-D 767 for FSX won't be sold on DVD/CD format. The days of PUBLIC SUPPORT FORUMS are over for all Level-D products. Our registered forums are open to customers with proof of purchase registration. We do not provide support for non-purchasers.You got questions about the Level-D product(s), post in the General Level-D forum.

[badaboom 0]

You can't go to a bit torrent site and download a Ford either so I can see where Developers of Flight sim software are coming from trying to protect their product.At the end of the day they have family's to provide for and bills to pay just like the rest of us,The registered licenced user forums are no big deal to join and if they protect are small market hobby from theft and insure survival of the FS add-on industry I'm all for it.

[january 19]

---------------------The registered licenced user forums are no big deal to join---------

--------------------------------------Yes- if you have already purchased the software! But what if you are trying to decide a purchase between either A or B - and B has a closed forum? (I try to buy only one of each type of airplane.)You wouldn't buy a $100 ticket for a live theatre show without first reading what the critics & theatre goers are saying? Would you???Alex Reid

[DShutt 14]

You're right, Alex.Foolishly, the developers of the 767 did not think through the registered forum idea and have now alienated users from purchasing our product. :( Did you READ what I wrote above?30 DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!

[january 19]

You're right, Alex.Foolishly, the developers of the 767 did not think through the registered forum idea and have now alienated users from purchasing our product. :( Did you READ what I wrote above?30 DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!

------------------------Daryl- Guess I'm a poor communicator. I purchase software addons solely via CD since I am a total klutz when it comes to downloading anything. I use the time waiting for CD release, in evaluating the software via forums, observing problems and studying a print out of the manual and comparing notes with Bulfer's Users' Guide. I get nervous when I can't see what simmers are reporting!But then, since my budget allows for only one add-on per year, I'm not what you would class as a big time customer.The policy of closed forums reminds me of the famous "South Seas Bubble" of 1720. One successful investment scheme of that time, solicted funds "For carrying on an undertaking of great advantage but no one to know what it is."Not comparing LDS in any way, but I do respect open information dissemination.Regards to all at Level D. Alex Reid

[DShutt 14]

The registration forum is for support, not to hide information. You want particular information about the product, post at the Level-D General forum...I appreciate you choose buy CD's and not download, Alex, but that's not the way it's going to be anymore. Flight sim software is a very small market. Noone is getting rich off software sales - but, if you want to see sophisticated software (at a reasonable price) like Level-D's, you will have to play the way the company has chosen to play. It's a win-win situation. Otherwise, you can kiss developers goodbye.As for DVD/CD's, the profit margins for flightsim software developers to produce DVD/CD version is miniscule. The only people that make money on them are the retailers. And, the CD versions invariably get "shared".Download distribution reduces the cost to produce the product and keeps the price down.Too many very talented people's work is being ripped off by software piracy/torrents. To add insult to injury, they come to support forums and want support for a product they haven't paid for in the first place. I think you can appreciate WHY Level-D has chosen to offer support by registration only. Do you know how many people have come looking for support and NEVER register? What does that tell you?

[Guest lgvpilot1]

You're right, Alex.Foolishly, the developers of the 767 did not think through the registered forum idea and have now alienated users from purchasing our product. :( Did you READ what I wrote above?30 DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!

If the internet take on capitals is looked upon as shouting , and therefore rude , how would you classify this ?As an aside I too am a CD/DVD man myself Alex , but I do think that what Daryl has stated about download only policy is the only way that developers can try and beat pirate software .PSS for example left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths when they went AWOL so to speak , but Flight 1 is the total opposite , and personally I think it is as easy , if not easier than downloading and installing some freeware from the library .If we are to expect developers to carry on giving us their great Aircraft and sceneries , then I think we have to accept the ways in which they are able to distribute said software .I just hope they dont all shout as loud as Daryl :( Mark

[january 19]

----------As an aside I too am a CD/DVD man myself Alex , but I do think that what Daryl has stated about download only policy is the only way that developers can try and beat pirate software .----------- and personally I think it is as easy , if not easier than downloading and installing some freeware from the library .If we are to expect developers to carry on giving us their great Aircraft and sceneries , then I think we have to accept the ways in which they are able to distribute said software .I just hope they dont all shout as loud as Daryl :( Mark[/quote------------------------Mark- I suupose so, but for folks who were retired before PCs existed, downloading is a real mystery. I've managed to do it from the AVSIM library on a couple of occasions- although each time took many hours and several tries clicking here and there, trying to make it work! Last time I swore never again. [And needing a home service call to upgrade video drivers is expensive!] I shudder to think of a sys crash and having to go back to LDS or F1 to reactivate etc.-------Has there ever been a serious study of software piracy and whether it really causes loss of revenue to the developer? My guess is when it comes to games such as FS, that a theft proof system would not change the income stream appreciably. That is, the thieves would simply move on to another target if stymied on one- and only very rarely would actually purchase if unable to steal a specific title. It's the same motivation I think, as the punks who steal cars for joyriding or a cheap ride home. When a car model is made difficult to swipe they move on to an easy one. But would never bother buying that car. It's the joy of stealing- something for nothing- show your friends mentality. (We're talking the casual / play with it for a day or two pirates- not the professional commercial counterfeiters who deal in system software.)Regards Alex Reid

[DShutt 14]

>If the internet take on capitals is looked upon as shouting , and therefore rude , how would you classify this ?I wasn't sure Alex could hear me! :( This software validation vs piracy issue gets beaten to death in the AVSIM forums. I think users need to accept that the developers and publishers of the software know what is going on in the marketplace and are running their business the best way they can. Do a google search on ANY FS product... see ow many torrents you find. Some of these sites are actually SELLING the torrents. If the REAL cost of developing these products was reflected in the purchase price... you'd be looking at prices in the hundreds of dollars.Level-D has worked very hard to balance quality and price. Okay, tired now...

[JAT 185]

:( for the end off this topicBob

[DShutt 14]

Amen...

[Ant1981 0]

Well if you don't like the topic, don't read it. Some of us here might actually like to discuss this.