Extended Beta Team/AirSimmer, etc: Summary

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Captains-We have a long standing tradition in the PMDG forum that we do not discourage the discussion of non PMDG products. We DO, however, restrict anyone from coming here and openly trashing another developer or product.The earlier thread on Extended Beta Teams, and specifically, whether or not PMDG would ever employ such a testing method- has gone a bit off track- and was removed. Throughout the day today- we have removed a number of threads offering (often heated) opinions regarding AirSimmer's decision to offer a pay-to-beta product to customers.As much as we like to tease Ryan about his spare time (he's in a band... i mean- seriously!) it isn't appropriate for him to sit here hitting reload in order to delete posts by folks wishing to take their emotions toward another developer and insert them into the PMDG forum.So- lets please refrain from the negativity and the bashing, please. We aren't interested.So- to get back to answering the original posters question: "Would PMDG ever employ such a beta testing technique?"No- we won't. We won't because we have a beta testing method that works for PMDG- and we see no reason to modify the process. Based on our experience, we gain tremendous benefit by having type rated flight crew, experienced maintenance technicians, avionics gurus and a smattering of "regular simmers" in a small group that allows everyone to get comfortable with one another- and promotes rapid and detailed communication between the developers and the testers. It's taken us a decade to get the mix right- so we won't be messing with it any time soon.For us- the signal to noise ratio is key.In my post in the previous thread- I offered my personal concerns, as a long-time member of the community, that we are seeing greater and greater stratification of pricing in order for customers to obtain a working product. In order to be forthright- I'll mention here again that this is a direction that the development community has been headed that we don't think is necessarily beneficial to the community. We set our pricing, and other developers set their own- and at the end of the day my opinion as a community member is only as valuable as yours... Except that I have a say in how PMDG handles pricing process- so we are going to continue holding the line on providing you with a complete product who's purchase price gives you the best value for your purchase price.Additionally- at PMDG we do not want to sell you a product that is incomplete or in some sub-stage of development. This runs counter to our business model- as we do not feel that we should make revenue from a development phase until the product is ready for you to use "out of the box" (or out of the pipeline? whats the proper phrase here for digitally delivered products?)At PMDG we are comfortable setting the high-bar in pricing for our products because we think you are getting very good simulation value for your money. This means that we have taken the testing process to its limits in order to give you a product that works as the airplane works. That being said- I think you will see some abatement in price growth from us. Currently the price level we are targeting for the NG2.0 is in line with our existing lead-line products- and will likely be only SLIGHTLY more expensive than the total 2004 combined price of the 737-600/700 and 800/900 packages. Given that you'll get the entire airplane fleet, plus a raft of new functionality and goodies with this product- that is a pretty good value for the community.So- gents- it is acceptable to talk about any topic you wish here- but we would ask that you please not come here to vent your frustration on other developers- as it will force us to eliminate the post.

[Gumps 0]

Captains-In my post in the previous thread- I offered my personal concerns, as a long-time member of the community, that we are seeing greater and greater stratification of pricing in order for customers to obtain a working product. In order to be forthright- I'll mention here again that this is a direction that the development community has been headed that we don't think is necessarily beneficial to the community. We set our pricing, and other developers set their own- and at the end of the day my opinion as a community member is only as valuable as yours... Except that I have a say in how PMDG handles pricing process- so we are going to continue holding the line on providing you with a complete product who's purchase price gives you the best value for your purchase price.Additionally- at PMDG we do not want to sell you a product that is incomplete or in some sub-stage of development. This runs counter to our business model- as we do not feel that we should make revenue from a development phase until the product is ready for you to use "out of the box" (or out of the pipeline? whats the proper phrase here for digitally delivered products?)At PMDG we are comfortable setting the high-bar in pricing for our products because we think you are getting very good simulation value for your money. This means that we have taken the testing process to its limits in order to give you a product that works as the airplane works. That being said- I think you will see some abatement in price growth from us. Currently the price level we are targeting for the NG2.0 is in line with our existing lead-line products- and will likely be only SLIGHTLY more expensive than the total 2004 combined price of the 737-600/700 and 800/900 packages. Given that you'll get the entire airplane fleet, plus a raft of new functionality and goodies with this product- that is a pretty good value for the community.So- gents- it is acceptable to talk about any topic you wish here- but we would ask that you please not come here to vent your frustration on other developers- as it will force us to eliminate the post.

RobertI must have missed the ranting about beta testing, but the latter part of your post regarding price caught my eye. You see, I spent a portion of my evening last night reading the MD-11 FCOM, FMS Manual, and Systems Manual, and of course poking around the MD-11 on the sim. I know, I know, RTFM. I've nosed around the manuals before, but figured I'd attempt a stem to stern approach this time. Anyway, I thought to myself, "the manuals alone are worth the price your company charges for the entire package." I happen to work for a certain large airframe manufacturer, and I know what the equivalent manuals cost if you buy them from our company. Heck, the PMDG manuals alone are a bargain!And then, there's all of the coding and testing and so forth that must go on to make something like the MD-11X work in FSX (or FS9). When I think of all of the hours and hours that go into a project like this, I'm amazed that it can be offered for so little money. I could never, in my wildest dream, build something like that. I realize others have different views on this kind of thing, and what is a "small amount of money", is not necessarily so small to another. But when it comes to "value", I would have trouble understanding how someone might think the packages sold are not worth the money charged. Heck, I want PMDG to stay in business and flourish.So thank you for what you and your team do. So many posts are regarding problems and issues, and rightfully so. We write in to try to solve things. Some posts, are just to point out the things we enjoy...like this one. Kudos to PMDG. The attention to detail and overall quality...and value, are evident, and are very much appreciated.Oh, and would you folks hurry up with that 737NG 2.0! CheersNoel WBrisbane

[Tabs 2,790]

Hey, my band is good, not a laughing matter! ;)

[Guest Ryan Briggs]

Hey, my band is good, not a laughing matter! ;)

yeah, but you guys are no Rise Against......Probably not even as good as Alkaline Trio......Who sucks major **** :( Just pulling your hair HahahaDamned signature;Ryan

[Tabs 2,790]

lol Rise Against irks me for some reason, don't like the singer.

[Guest Ryan Briggs]

lol Rise Against irks me for some reason, don't like the singer.

haha fair, I find Rise Against to be an either Love or hate band, My Main thing with them is their depth in lyrics, Ranging from Political Crap to losing someone, to just sitting on a porch.Saw them here in Denver at the Fillmore november last year;Rise Interview"We're Man enough to Ride a Scooter" :(

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Ryan-(no- not that ryan, the other ryan!)Ryan's band is actually pretty darn good. I'm not a music/entertainment expert by any stretch- but Ryan has been sharing their music with me for a couple of years- and I can see these guys making it if they can just get the right combination of good breaks...The band is named Sketching In Stereo, for those intersted in seeking them out in the usual places...

[Tabs 2,790]

Easier than searching hehe - http://www.myspace.com/sketchinginstereo

[Guest Ryan Briggs]

Easier than searching hehe - http://www.myspace.com/sketchinginstereo

You guys sound Good Ryan, I'm Rooting for you - the stuff you guys have is Definitely Worthy of an Opening act for some of the bigger players in the "Circus".That song Flailing After Dark - I liked it, Kinda reminded me of Blue October for some reason o_O*girlfriends dragged me to that show..... THREE times* :( Curious, Want kind of Guitars do you play?Looked at the pics, kinda blury but maybe an Ibanez?I can tell that Amp head from a Mile away, Great choice on the Mesa Boogie ;] the only Amps I like better are Soldano.....But christ the price tag is Rediculous.

[Lindbergh72 0]

Dear Robert, sirWill U make 737-900ER as well? :(

[macpac22 0]

As PMDGs aircrafts are so complex, im willing to bet there is some secret switch somewhere in the MD-11 cockpit that when pressed blares out a Sketching In Stereo track..... :(

[Tabs 2,790]

Curious, Want kind of Guitars do you play?Looked at the pics, kinda blury but maybe an Ibanez?I can tell that Amp head from a Mile away, Great choice on the Mesa Boogie ;] the only Amps I like better are Soldano.....But christ the price tag is Rediculous.

I currently play two Ernie Ball/Music Man JP6 guitars, a Bahama Blueburst BFR model is the primary standard tuning one and I use a Carbon Blue Pearl standard model for the Drop D songs.I actually don't play Mesa amps anymore, I've had a Diezel VH4 half stack for about a year and a half, that's an old picture from when I still had the Road King II... You want to talk about ridiculous price tags, check out Diezel lol.

[Guest]

Well, if we are going this road, I might as well add my own homemade music!www.myspace.com/jeroenvanengelenhoven:(

[klm251 62]

Well, if we are going this road, I might as well add my own homemade music!www.myspace.com/jeroenvanengelenhoven:(

Hey jeroen hows it going fellow dutchy? hehehehe think your a guy i can talk with to me to play guitar heheBtw i was aware of the music of ryan just great :)Johan Ketting

[badaboom 0]

Ryan,Who new? WOW!! I'm impressed,your song "No Direction"really good!!