Braking Noise

[Deaf Pilot 1]

I was messing around with some of the default airliners, and I realized that most, if not all, have this annoying "groaning" sound when I apply brakes. Anyone know what this is supposed to be?

[Paul J 349]

I was messing around with some of the default airliners, and I realized that most, if not all, have this annoying "groaning" sound when I apply brakes. Anyone know what this is supposed to be?

Airliner brakes use an anti-locking system, first used on aircraft and developed in the '50's by Dunlop and known as the Maxaret system. This automatically (but mechanically) 'pumped' the brakes as the pilot pressed on the brake pedals, thus considerably reducing the chances of skidding on a wet runway. It's a little more high-tech nowadays, but the noise caused by pumping hydraulic multi-plate disc brakes at low frequency remains, and unfortunately because the nosewheel is (effectively) bolted to the bottom of the flightdeck floor - the whole assembly acts as an amplifier for the brake application. It groans. On some cars fitted with ABS one can feel the pedal pumping as it operates..

[Deaf Pilot 1]

Airliner brakes use an anti-locking system, first used on aircraft and developed in the '50's by Dunlop and known as the Maxaret system. This automatically (but mechanically) 'pumped' the brakes as the pilot pressed on the brake pedals, thus considerably reducing the chances of skidding on a wet runway. It's a little more high-tech nowadays, but the noise caused by pumping hydraulic multi-plate disc brakes at low frequency remains, and unfortunately because the nosewheel is (effectively) bolted to the bottom of the flightdeck floor - the whole assembly acts as an amplifier for the brake application. It groans. On some cars fitted with ABS one can feel the pedal pumping as it operates..

Oh I see... that makes sense. I have noticed that any brake use in FSX basically results in locked wheels, so again, that really does make sense.

[Guest jshyluk]

Braking with the keyboard is an on/off binary proposition. Braking with toe brakes on rudder pedals (or another analog controller, like racing pedals) is like using the brakes on your car. Rudder pedal toe brakes also allow for differential braking, which can be something like skid steering. You can gradually apply left or right braking, which gives you some nice taxi control.In FSX, though, I am guessing this might teach some bad habits, as it's not good to ride the brakes on an aircraft. Sometimes I use differential braking to augment the rudder on the ground, which I bet is not at all good on a real plane.Jeff ShylukSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

[Guest napamule]

(All of this ) depends on what type 'airplane' you are talking about. On a Cub you can burn up and/or warp brakes just on taxi to parking. On a Airbus, it won't LET you do the same thing.In FSX IT DON'T MATTER, as you are not going to 'burn up' any type of brakes no matter how long you 'lean' on pedal(s). You can lock them up with parking brake when bleeding speed from 150 kts and FSX don't care, because it only knows 'ON' and 'OFF'. No college degree required for THIS 'binary proposition'.When will you guys stop trying to put REAL aircraft PARTS into FSX aircraft? There are NO 'multi-plate disc' brakes on ANY aircraft in FSX. NONE. NADA. NEVER. ONLY IN REAL PLANES. GET REAL (literally). Quit pretending and bragging/showing off your mechanical knowledge about REAL planes. It don't do sqaut here. Some kid that don't know nothing would declare you a 'guru'. I myself can't say what I 'declare' you types, in the intrest of peace and tranquility). Grrrrr.Chuck BNapamule

[n4gix 4,947]

Gosh Chuck, did someone run over your puppy? :(

[Deaf Pilot 1]

Gosh Chuck, did someone run over your puppy? :(

:(Thats great, Father Chuck :)Actually I did figure out what it was and, as mentioned above, it actually was exactly that, the Anti-Lock. But it wasnt from FSX... it was actually a feature of FSPassengersX. I turned it off and now it's gone. However though, it can be turned down for those who have rudder pedal braking and would like to hear it so they can tell if they are locking up or not.

[Guest Tingoose]

Nice one Chuck. You may have innapropriately used rant mode to get your point across (in such an over the top way that it was funny), but I have some sympathy with the point you make. When someone gives a highly technical reply such as the one above it always fails to acknowledge that the sim isn't actually simulating such a technical system. All that can be said is, that at best, the FS designers have added in soundfile or a visual effect to make you 'believe' that something is going on, but as you say, it isn't actually happening. It's just pretending. Still, one could argue that Paul J has offered some interesting technical facts about real world aviation and I always welcome that, even if it has little or no bearing on what's happening in the sim.

[Guest jshyluk]

Napamule, meet Strider. Strider, meet Napamule.Jeff ShylukSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

[Paul J 349]

Thanks TinG, although I'm not sure I should have answered the OP's question, given the vehemence of Chuckies inappropriate comments....... I don't know much about anything in particular, but I try to help or contribute to the overall aviation learning process if I can - especially when a person shows genuine interest.

Quit pretending and bragging/showing off your mechanical knowledge about REAL planes.

"Pretending" is what gaming is about. The simulator is about "immersion" - the feeling that one is "there". Any (nosewheel) aircraft I ever flew had ABS - and here it is - modeled! I want to feel I'm a captain in an MD-80, with 156 (FS)Passengers at Gate B5 at KSEA. I want the sounds, the feeling, the smell (if possible); the adrenaline rush at rotation: This is what my hobby is. A successful flight, SEA down to SFO or LAX, and a solid FSP report at the end of it. I make no apologies for this: we simmers continuously complain about the wrong engine sounds, jerky instruments, poor flight models, incorrect ATC procedures, the weather engine, blurries, bunching AI, etc.. The better it gets - the better I/we like it. I like the sound of my (imaginary) Maxarets doing their job.It's really unfortunate, though that some damp cloth has to come along - particularly another simmer - and tell me to quit "bragging/showing off my mechanical knowledge" while the OP (and others, I suppose) gained some insight into the detail that the designers of these "imaginary aircraft" go to. It's too bad, because it was a decent question, and I thought, could use a decent answer. Incidentally, Chucky.. and not really bragging here, but I was an Air Scout in 1954, in the Air Training Corps by 1956, in the RAF at 15 1/2, as an apprentice in 1960, became a pp in 1962, an AME and commercial in 1967, have worked for three airlines, on BAC-111's, B707's, Bristol Britannia's, Viscounts, DC-3's, DHC-6's, plus a good assortment of "other stuff"... I learned a lot about aircraft in that time. Oh, yes - I also built my own house, dug it's 30' deep well by hand, got a couple of degrees, AND found time to run three companies since coming to Canada.. not to mention two wives and seven grandchildren AND I built my own flight deck. Not bad for an old fart... but I'm.. not bragging.... nor am I a guru.So thanks for dragging the tone down, Chucky, making me completely defensive, and swearing to never help anyone on Avsim again. Of course tomorrow's another day and another flight - but I'll remember your name for sure. "you guys" indeed! Thanks.

[yellowjack 28]

their job.Incidentally, Chucky.. and not really bragging here, but I was an Air Scout in 1954, in the Air Training Corps by 1956, in the RAF at 15 1/2, as an apprentice in 1960, became a pp in 1962, an AME and commercial in 1967, have worked for three airlines, on BAC-111's, B707's, Bristol Britannia's, Viscounts, DC-3's, DHC-6's, plus a good assortment of "other stuff"... I learned a lot about aircraft in that time. Oh, yes - I also built my own house, dug it's 30' deep well by hand, got a couple of degrees, AND found time to run three companies since coming to Canada.. not to mention two wives and seven grandchildren AND I built my own flight deck. Not bad for an old fart... but I'm.. not bragging.... nor am I a guru.Thanks.

Interesting Paul I, was a RAF Brat from 1959-1962, what entry were you?

[Paul J 349]

41st Entry, Boy Entrants, actually RAF Cosford. Halton would have been nice, but wasn't smart enough. Still not, I suppose. Looking at your profile I guess you're a full-blown Orbx man now, huh? ... and I would further guess you had a stay on the Isle of Anglesea at some time, too, right? :(

[yellowjack 28]

41st Entry, Boy Entrants, actually RAF Cosford. Halton would have been nice, but wasn't smart enough. Still not, I suppose. Looking at your profile I guess you're a full-blown Orbx man now, huh? ... and I would further guess you had a stay on the Isle of Anglesea at some time, too, right? :(

Interesting, I started as BE 35th (Air Radar) at Cosford then went to Halton 92nd Entry as an Apprentice Framey. Yup, ended my RAF stint after the first and last "Yellowjacks" season with 4FTS RAF Valley then got a medical disharge. Next it was "Hallo" Oz where I got into EDP (now IT) stayed with it until I retired. I have ORBX but mainly fly Flightsim in USA (more interesting geography and met.) Flew my own self built aircraft (RW) around in SE Oz for a few years until "Her indoors" refused to come again after flying through a really rough patch one day. C'est la vie, besides hangar fees for FSX are considerably less than the real thing. :(

[Deaf Pilot 1]

I agree that Chuck's response was completely inappropriate... very uncalled for.And by the way, I meant Father Bill, not Father Chuck haha sorry about that.

[Paul J 349]

I agree that Chuck's response was completely inappropriate... very uncalled for.And by the way, I meant Father Bill, not Father Chuck haha sorry about that.

Thanks, Todd. I've noticed "Fr." Bill for a while. now; must have missed the announcement of your taking of the "orders", Bill.... :(