State of the Hobby Survey Discussion

[january 19]

The most interesting bits of data for me were:- Fewer than 50% of respondents are optimistic about the future of the hobby. Understandable under the circumstances, but sobering nonetheless- The average age is much higher than the typical "gamer" or even the typical Internet user, so is the average incomeJohn

-------------------------Yes- 66% of survey respondents are over 40. That would explain a cautious future outlook and perhaps is a major reason that FSX has failed to capture 50% of the simmer market. A neat question therefore is: As the flight simmer population continues to age- Will the number of those who are migrating back to FS9 exceed those who are moving up to FSX ?Alex Reid

[airboatr 0]

I use FSX only , over the hill gang memberI have about 400.00 worth of add-ons (and I cringe at that amount)mostly AC although I have GEX so I can Nav around by road , for the most part :)I run it on a 820D with 4 gig of ram ( and I don't worry that I can't use it all)and an 8800GT OC happy simming :)

[kiwikat 506]

Guess I'm a bit late to the thread but I've just seen the results now.

I use FSX only , over the hill gang memberI have about 400.00 worth of add-ons (and I cringe at that amount)

I'm also FSX only. Just for the heck of it, I installed FS9 on here and I was shocked that FSX actually gives me far better FPS and a much smoother experience than FS9. Not to mention looking a million times better.Only 400 and that makes you cringe? lol... I REALLY don't want to know what I've spent. Probably closer to 4000 than 400 (not counting my new computer). This is my only real hobby anymore.I was pretty surprised that so many people are pessimistic about the future of FS. I want to know how many people who are pessimistic still use FS9 vs FSX. THAT would be interesting. Any way to do that?Some of you guys are blowing this survey out of proportion though. Only 2000 something people responded. MS has sold 500+ times that many copies of FSX. This is hardly representative of the population. It, however, MAY be representative of the forum users here at AVSIM or at least a small portion of people who use the file library. You cannot possibly apply it to a larger crowd than that without some major issues. It has been shown and stated by several developers now that FSX sales exceed FS9 sales, sometimes by a significant margin. That margin will continue to grow until developers are no longer creating FS9 products (this too is slowly happening).Tom, if it is possible could you get those statistics on the pessimisticity of FS9 users?That's a really odd word... lol In fact it doesn't seem to be a word at all :(

[MD83 1]

I'm FS9 only. Less than 25% of Flightsim.com's newest freeware is FSX-oriented. FSX is nearly three years old, and almost obsolete. The urge to use the "latest" and greatest isn't that strong :)

[Guest CX355]

FS9 only and most likely forever...............toooooooo much money invested to switch and buy a system which can handle FSX. Sorry FSX but you don't rate spending 4 or 5 grand.

[Guest CX355]

Guess I'm a bit late to the thread but I've just seen the results now.I'm also FSX only. Just for the heck of it, I installed FS9 on here and I was shocked that FSX actually gives me far better FPS and a much smoother experience than FS9. Not to mention looking a million times better.Only 400 and that makes you cringe? lol... I REALLY don't want to know what I've spent. Probably closer to 4000 than 400 (not counting my new computer). This is my only real hobby anymore.I was pretty surprised that so many people are pessimistic about the future of FS. I want to know how many people who are pessimistic still use FS9 vs FSX. THAT would be interesting. Any way to do that?Some of you guys are blowing this survey out of proportion though. Only 2000 something people responded. MS has sold 500+ times that many copies of FSX. This is hardly representative of the population. It, however, MAY be representative of the forum users here at AVSIM or at least a small portion of people who use the file library. You cannot possibly apply it to a larger crowd than that without some major issues. It has been shown and stated by several developers now that FSX sales exceed FS9 sales, sometimes by a significant margin. That margin will continue to grow until developers are no longer creating FS9 products (this too is slowly happening).Tom, if it is possible could you get those statistics on the pessimisticity of FS9 users?That's a really odd word... lol In fact it doesn't seem to be a word at all :(

Items which aren't selling in FS9 in some things may have to do with the popularity of the product itself but also the sales may not be that significant w/ FSX although they may be out selling FS9 and vice versa. With the demise of MSFS development, both sims may wither on the vine before long as far as new products go from payware developers or we may well see a sharp decline in the number of developers.

[Guest CX355]

The most interesting bits of data for me were:- Fewer than 50% of respondents are optimistic about the future of the hobby. Understandable under the circumstances, but sobering nonetheless- The average age is much higher than the typical "gamer" or even the typical Internet user, so is the average income- People are very positive about the *current* state of the hobbySo you have a bunch of people who enjoy their hobby and are loyal and passionate users with lots of money, but are (rightfully) fearful that the hobby is in a state of decline. Seems like a great opportunity for someone to step in and capture some market share - a modern day Fly! or Flight Unlimited. In a perfect world, the third party devs would band together, raise some seed capital, hire a few of the talented devs from Aces, and build their own sim. This survey could be section 2A of the business case: The Market Opportunity. John

In a perfect world, the third party devs would band together, raise some seed capital, hire a few of the talented devs from Aces, and build their own sim. This survey could be section 2A of the business case: The Market Opportunity. Would'nt that be nice and while there at it develop something that does'nt become obsolete with each rendition of windows or better yet doesn't nn windows to operate. What, a new windows already, Vista like FSx I guess just has not done the job as hoped. I sometimes wonder if the closing of ACES has more to do with the direction of MS and future systems under development.

[Guest CX355]

The question I see here is not "which version of flight sim do you use", it's "what's the next simulator going to look like, who's going to be designing it, and for which platform."Like it or not, FSX is going to win the current "popularity contest", for the time being, anyway...that's the sim we'll all be using and designing for, but for how long? That's just the way technology works, there's no getting around it. To even have this discussion, I feel, is fruitless. How many people do you know who still run DOS games on their machines? How many people do you know who even know how to use DOS (I'm dating myself here)? You see my point here, don't you?

How many people do you know who even know how to use DOS (I'm dating myself here)?True, but there are hords out there who wish it were still here........

[ryanbatc 12,847]

The age range of the (mostly) men who enjoy this hobby is interesting. The X Box and to a lesser degree the PS changed the nature of the game for PC platforms which require reading a book before "playing." Any idiot can grasp the first person shooter concept in two seconds with zero thought. However, learning even the most user friendly sim, like FSX is a steep learning curve for a lot of younger folks who just do not want to invest the time in something that rewards the most patient with little more than a nice view out the window and the smooth chirp of tires in the touch down zone of an intended destination.

I found it also interesting that the majority of the survey respondants were middle-aged men. I wonder if the same men who responded in this survey are the same who frequent sites like this? Maybe there are a bunch of kids (I'm a kid hehe) who dont visit sites, and thus a lot of kids who just want to use FSX for action/arcade-style gaming. Maybe MS is correct in building a new sim with weird and silly (IMHO) mission-based aspects.I have always wondered what the broad numbers are for FS users, regarding age that is...

[Guest N6722c]

Users of FS9 still OUTNUMBER those who use FSX as their primary simulator. I think its time to honestly ask ourselves why that is and how this can be resolved if FSX is to be the 'future' of this hobby. What new functionality is being brought to the table for FSX that is going to turn that tide (I'm not talking about prettier graphics but REAL functionality) or are we going to be forever stuck with a split community?

I think it could be argued that FSX will probably NOT be the future of this hobby, but has turned out to be more of a Hiccup.If the once expected FS11, was still being developed, and due to be released soon, then maybe : -especially if FS11 "fixed" the many issues that make FSX "difficult" to evolve to from FS9.But with all the problems and issue still associated in FSX, for many, FSX is just something to "play" with and be seduced by a few "Extras" and "Eye Candy". If one wants a reliable, stable Simulator, then FS9 still for many, is the FS of choice. The "Eye Candy" of FSX is "nice", but 3rd party scenery addons, in many case, makes FS9 appear to have better scenery, and with the added bonus of a significantly highter Frame Rate, and better stability, flying with others on systems like Vatsim, makes FS9 still the obvious choice.FS9 "fixed" many of the issues in the buggy FS8.It was hoped that FS11 would have done the same for FSX ... but that seems unlikely now.So maybe, for the best, the FUTURE of FS will be some NEW simulator, that hopefully will NOT be limited by the need to backward compatable with old, legacy systems, and can advanatage of a fresh Modern design approaches, using current and future hardware & multi-core CPU/GPU software.As far as FX11 is concerned, maybe it is for the best that it was put out of it's potential misery.There is a Proverb "You can't make a silk purse, out of a sow's ear" -- seems to sum up FSX/FS11 nicely !!Geoff

[davegriff 0]

Surely the argument about DOS is because a windowed system is undoubtedly way superior to DOS.As I see it, FSX is more a variation on a theme rather than an improvement of FS. In many ways it does less well than fs9. I'll switch to a new simulator when we get one that is a real advance over what we have now, not just a rehash with some good features removed and new 'trivia' added. While we're on the subject, whatever happened to the half decent helios from FS2002?

[Guest DarrenS914]

It's an interesting question and the answer is as far as our imagination will take us. What I mean by this is that right now we have multiple platforms for simming and simming is further divided into civil flight sims and military simulation. As a long time fan of the both the microsoft simming products and their sublogic ancestors I can say I love the realism and the immersive nature of the sim world. But what about the military sims such as Falcon4? Has anyone ever considered a multipurpose simming platform? Many of us are already on VATSIM when we fly so what about flying in a world where it's possible to fly into a warzone?? C-130's flying into Korea at wavetop level as F-16's fly high cap to defend against aggressor Migs or perhaps even a further integration such as found in Fly Aces High where users can not only fly but man ground installations and vehicles. Long story short, how about one platform, multiple uses? The problem is that we're going to probably need a whole new graphics engine to fuel this monster though I'm sure it can be done. On ACES studio's closing, to be honest I'm of mixed opinion. I really hated how they would come out with a new product and it was so advanced that I couldn't do anything with it for months or years because the computer could only manage .26 FPS *LOL* but it has to start someplace. Their built in aircraft were the first exposure I and many like me had to the heavy iron. Anyone remember the first time you flew a DC-9 in FS98 and the first time you were able to add real world carried textures to it? It was magic for me then and still is lo these many years later. While their a/c were always lacking a bit in realistic performance and systems, they were a wonderful starting point and led to a long relationship with simming.Darren

[Superpilotv2 2]

It´s really interseting to see, that i´m not the oldest, who has this beautiful hobby.^^I never thought that the FS has most of it´s supporters in the age between 41 and 50. I thought this is mostly played by some teens.I ´m sometimes being laughed because I do simming, but now I can say, I´m not the only one and there are lots of peope older tha me who do this.Thanks Tom for this interesting poll. It opened my eyes!

[Guest ssf]

Hello every one I have write a couple of emails to the developers of FSX and I was very disappointed to know that they have stoped working on newer versions of FS perhaps all we have left is add ons I wish that some one would come up with a simulator fully loaded and functional with planes like pmdg this are the best planes. I have buy in the past from other developers but they really suck. Does any one have any new info in regards of a newer version of FS. have a safe journey. Saul

[Chock 17,769]

Microsoft Flight Simulator is no longer being developed, but Microsoft have commenced development on what is effectively its replacement, which is called Microsoft Flight, and you can check that out at this link: http://www.microsoft.com/games/flight/There is also a dedicated forum on Avsim for stuff about it (scroll down a bit on the forums and you will see it), although there's not a great deal known about what exactly Flight will and will not contain. Nevertheless, most people are of the opinion that the Flight Simulator series was killed off in order to break the link with previous version and so not have to worry about making it backwardly compatible with previous add-ons, which would kind of make sense since having to do that ties it to older technology in many ways. So the upshot is, Microsoft Flight is effectively the new version of Microsoft Flight Simulator, but with a chance to start from a clean slate and make use of newer technology so that it will run well on modern computer hardware. Al