Understanding Intersections

[Guest krom0025]

I am looking for some help understanding how to identify intersections on enroute charts. How do I know which two VORs and radials make up a given intersection? It doesn't show anything on the chart except for the name of the intersection and coordinates of the fix. The chart does include all of the VOR stations and there frequencies but I don't know which ones a given intersection consists of. I am trying to do some VOR nagivation without any gps. Thanks in advance for your help.-BrianEdit: I have one other question too. I usually use FSbuild to set up my flight plans. Somtimes the the flight plan will contain multiple intersections in a row. I could just fly to an intersection and then turn to the heading of the next one and fly the distance, but that doesn't seem very accurate. What is the best way to navigate between intersections using only radio navigation?

[Guest Mendota]

When I had FSNav it was easy, because you could get bearings. Now, when I look at an enroute chart I have the same question. For intersections I want to nail by radio navigation, I create an FS flight plan tht includes the intersection, then drag the course line to a nearby VOR to get the radial. Very cumbersome, but it works fine if you have just a few, such as in a SID.I'll be looking for a good answer to this question, too.

[Guest Boeing Skunk Works]

I am looking for some help understanding how to identify intersections on enroute charts. How do I know which two VORs and radials make up a given intersection? It doesn't show anything on the chart except for the name of the intersection and coordinates of the fix. The chart does include all of the VOR stations and there frequencies but I don't know which ones a given intersection consists of. I am trying to do some VOR nagivation without any gps. Thanks in advance for your help.-Brian

You don't have the correct charts. I'm not sure what you are using, but they sound worthless for radio navigation. If you had a plotter you might be able to use them, but it would be easier to have the correct charts.If you want to get away from the FMC and GPS you need hi- or low-altitude navigation charts that depicts airways as well as nav-aids, intersections, frequencies, airports, milage, etc.

[Guest PPSFA]

I'm not sure which enroute chart you are using, but NOAA charts show the radials from the VOR. Just follow the line back to the VOR and the radial is listed inside the 'rose' or close to it. Set NAV 1 and 2 to the radials shown, and when they both center you are there. They also show the DME in a square block if there is more than one 'leg' to that radial, or a number under the airway ID.If you go to www.airnav.com you can get every type of US chart you need, free. When you click on a Sectional chart, in the upper right corner there are links to the enroute charts.

[Guest krom0025]

You don't have the correct charts. I'm not sure what you are using, but they sound worthless for radio navigation. If you had a plotter you might be able to use them, but it would be easier to have the correct charts.If you want to get away from the FMC and GPS you need hi- or low-altitude navigation charts that depicts airways as well as nav-aids, intersections, frequencies, airports, milage, etc.

I use the enroute charts from navigraph. They have all the airways, intersections, frequencies, etc. I'm fairly new to reading these, so I am interested in figuring out just how to know which two VORs define an intersection. Some intersections are not on an airway for example.

[Guest Boeing Skunk Works]

Then you need a plotter for the scale of chart you are using.It's much easier to just stay on an airway. Why make it more difficult than it is?If you are flying bug smashers VFR, then I can see you doing that. I had to learn it too. But we didn't use intersections often, if ever. It was VOR to VOR, or NDB. You might get vectored to an intersection for sequencing, but if VFR you'd probably never know it.

[Guest krom0025]

Then you need a plotter for the scale of chart you are using.It's much easier to just stay on an airway. Why make it more difficult than it is?If you are flying bug smashers VFR, then I can see you doing that. I had to learn it too. But we didn't use intersections often, if ever. It was VOR to VOR, or NDB. You might get vectored to an intersection for sequencing, but if VFR you'd probably never know it.

Thanks, I appreciate your response. That helps a lot. I guess i will just try to stay on airways and that will be as easy as flying between VORs.

[Guest PPSFA]

And as the Skunk said, just go VOR to VOR, I've yet to have FS ATC vector me to an intersection :-) Better yet, go GPS direct, saves fuel :-)

[Guest Mendota]

I'm not sure which enroute chart you are using, but NOAA charts show the radials from the VOR. Just follow the line back to the VOR and the radial is listed inside the 'rose' or close to it. Set NAV 1 and 2 to the radials shown, and when they both center you are there. They also show the DME in a square block if there is more than one 'leg' to that radial, or a number under the airway ID.If you go to www.airnav.com you can get every type of US chart you need, free. When you click on a Sectional chart, in the upper right corner there are links to the enroute charts.

I went to skyvector.com but didn't see any charts like that. That looks fantastic. How do you get it?I still think being able to find intersections by radio navigation is useful, and fun. If you are flying classic airliners without FMCs it is pretty important.

[Guest PPSFA]

I went to skyvector.com but didn't see any charts like that. That looks fantastic. How do you get it?I still think being able to find intersections by radio navigation is useful, and fun. If you are flying classic airliners without FMCs it is pretty important.

Go to www.airnav.com, it links to skyvector....Click the Airports tab and type in a ICAO code or name then ENTERScroll down until you see a small Sectional chart on the right side and open thatWhen it opens, look in the upper right corner, you will see additional chart optionsYou can 'grab' any chart by holding down your mouse button and drag them or you can also zoom in and out.All US approach plates are in Airnav as well. It has every single thing you need for flying in the US and its all current and free, an amazing resourse.

[Guest Mendota]

Wow. I've used airnav a lot, but never found this before. This is amazing. Thanks.

[Brett_Henderson 5]

This is good stuff :( The most realistic side of MSFS, is instrument navigation. It's replicated so well, that if you can do it in the sim.. you can do it for real.... AND (with proper hardware and a CFII looking over your shoulder), you can log up to 10 hours toward earning your instrument rating.For VFR navigation (like you're doing).. just do it like you would for real. Flying VOR-to-VOR works well enough... but it can be an inefficient course, at best. Half the fun of virtual flying; is virtual flight-planning. Aside from deciding what your mission will be (destination, people and baggage to be carried).. figuring out how you'll get there is fun (and educational), too.Of course, run real weather (with winds aloft), so that real-world weather briefings are applicable. Have a good mental image of how your heading and ground-speed will be affected, so that you can plan potential fuel stops, based on how much fuel, your passenger/baggage load will allow. If visibility looks "iffy" anywhere along the route, be sure to have those approach-plates at the ready.Then.. make your own VOR radial intersections. It can be as simple as the airport itself (even just a DME reading along a single radial), or it can be a series of custom way-points, that will give you a more direct route.The narrative for this simple flight could be:Take off; fly a wind-corrected heading toward the destination, waiting to intercept EITHER the 090 radial from VOR2 OR the 200 radial from VOR1; make a heading adjustment until both CDIs are near center; continue on the wind-corrected heading; wait to intercept EITHER the 280 radial from VOR1 OR the 030 radial from VOR2; make a heading adjustment until both CDIs near center; continue on the wind-corrected heading to the destination; intercept EITHER the 300 radial from VOR1 OR the 350 radial from VOR2; make a heading adjustments... and as the two CDIs center.. TA DA.. you should see the airport. OR Use VORs for enroute, airspace avoidance... Pick a radial that's tangent to the airspace.. use it as reference until you're safely past the big airport..The GPS is invaluable during real flight. But using it in MSFS cheats you out of a great learning (and practice) experience. Finding your way to unfamiliar airports by radio navigation skill, is fun and satisfying. ANYbody can follow a little line on a GPS moving map :(

[Guest Boeing Skunk Works]

Having a constant mental picture of where you are based on instrument interpretation is the number one key to succesfully learning instrument navigation. If you lose your SA, it's very disorienting and can be extremely dangerous in some situations.This is the key to learnig to use VOR's and NDB's. You have to know where you are in your head and on the chart at all times.Nice tutorial there.

[Guest PPSFA]

This is good stuff :( The most realistic side of MSFS, is instrument navigation. It's replicated so well, that if you can do it in the sim.. you can do it for real.... AND (with proper hardware and a CFII looking over your shoulder), you can log up to 10 hours toward earning your instrument rating.

Sorry but I have to take exception to that. While FS is great for learning, you cannot log any time with it, it is not an FAA certified and approved sim.

[Guest PPSFA]

Wow. I've used airnav a lot, but never found this before. This is amazing. Thanks.

Glad to help