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John_Cillis

"Sad of the Year" award

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Guest Moghdad

What's really sad is that I could tell exactly what this thread would be about before I even opened it, simply by the names involved. The obsession of some posters borders on the pathological, sorry to say.

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"The obsession of some posters borders on the pathological, sorry to say."As long as there are businesses out there willing to "play" with our community, I'll be more than happy to maintain a pathological obsession. And before posting such a snide remark like you have, you may well remember that I took my share of licks for defending Ariane--before my opinion soured of the way the business is run. I made myself look like a fool thinking that Ariane was better than it's turned out to be. And there seem to be too many strategically placed posts trying to gloss over the stink these types of business practices throw over the community. Ariane may be perfectly legal in its presentation, but its a very foul smelling presentation. You haven't traded some of the coorespondence some of us have with Bobbo over simple things like a fix for a model, or a request to post a repaint (that is, unless you are Bobbo). And how many people were lured to the website with promises of product, only to buy something else out of frustration when the promised product wasn't there. When I see self serving prose on the site like Toni points out, that makes buyers believe it is being recognized for some type of wonderful service, I'm going to be here to remind people that car dealers share the same "awards" to make people think they are in it for the customer.Ariane's words about "promises" the customers made--sounds like the words of someone who thinks the customer a chess piece to be played. My question--has Ariane fixed the '300"? No. The spoilers still don't animate right, and the textures still have alignment problems. But that doesn't stop Ariane from promoting other products, doesn't it? But your ears were shut when you added your wisdom to the thread.... If you want the thread to die, you best stay out of it. Or at least tell us all why we should think Ariane is so deserving of praise, rather than take a shot at those that share there opinions. And I wouldn't be here in these threads, were they not pulled. I am not in here being obscene, insulting those in the threads, in spite of insults like yours. I am stating opinions. Not as someone with a position against Ariane, but as an Ariane customer who wants the business that took my money to have an honest discussion about how to deliver the promise the 737 project is to the community.

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Guest Moghdad

Good one, John! You had me going until I read this: "And how many people were lured to the website with promises of product, only to buy something else out of frustration when the promised product wasn't there.":-xxrotflmao:-xxrotflmao:-xxrotflmaoActually I wasn't thinking of you. If you search the recent posts of some, a high percentage deal with the subject of Ariane and nothing else. It does seem to border on obsession. Criticism is one thing, but I hate to see these pages used to further a vendetta. Whatever their faults Ariane do seem to have satisfied customers.Whatever. Personally my kink is GA, so I don't care much--unless, unless, unless....MOGHDAD = BOBBO?????:-bat

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Guest Toni Rauch

MoghdadIf you weren't thinking of John specifically, I can only assume you're thinking of me and I make no apologies for any of my remarks regarding Ariane.To suggest that this is some sort of vendetta however is ludicrous! It couldn't be further from the truth.This is all about exposing bad practices to the newer members of the community in the hope that their buying decisions can be informed ones, rather than purely based on 'iffy' marketing practices, broken promises, hype and customer contempt.Ariane has a reputation which is self-earned and richly deserved. The history of this 'business' and the person behind it speaks for itself and tomes have been written about it. (A search here at Avsim both on the front page and through the forums will enlighten those interested in the background).Sure, Ariane does have some satisfied customers and I'm happy for them. I also think their 737 model is quite pretty (although the newly-released freeware FFX 737NG with free repaints will no doubt give them a 'good run for their money'). But IMHO, that will never excuse the hype that Ariane use to 'suck people in', or the threats made to anyone who dares to question them or their practices.The day Ariane act as a real business should (IMO), by publically stating who they really are, where they are, issue support telephone numbers (or indeed any telephone numbers to contact them in person), and stop hiding behind ficticious personas like 'Bob', then 'Bobbo' and now 'Nev' and review their 'marketing', that'll be the day this 'close to obsession' as you call it stops...Toni.

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When I started reading this topic, I knew in what it would end. A personal affair between a few people and Bobbo. The fact you like the product or not is a personal item. The forum is THE place to discuss this. What I see is the Ariane products are discussed very much in very many topics. Other publishers are more lucky. They are never discussed here on the forum. I wonder why this is. Is it because some people fighting a personal "war" with Arinae, Bobbo, PT or whatever? Why is the very bad product of Flightsoft not that many discussed? Bad support too. I never get a reaction on e-mails to them about their product Fly to Hawaii for FS2002. Some years ago their product Tribute to the DC10 came out. A very, very good rendition of the DC10. I liked it right from the paper. I bought it and flew it very often with a lot of pleasure. I got FS2000. I was very happy with the announcemnet of Flightsoft they "upgraded" the product for FS2000. I had to buy it again, full price, getting the rebate would cost me more as the rebate was. That was the time I got very disappointed about the product. A new name, but the aircraft models still the same. No upgrade, just animated with the excelent Abacus Aircraft Animator. Just check the mdl file and you even find the line about this version is not intended for commercial use (or something like this line). I dropped the DC10 from Flightsoft and started flying the FFG models. When the "Complete new FS2002 version" of Fly to... came out, I hoped it was completely new, but it is excactly the same as the first Tribute package. The Tribute package had a lot of liveries. Fly to.. hasn't. You have to buy the other liveries. Again a full products price. It is 12 sided round. I can go on about this. (Yes I am still very disappointed about this, I mailed about it to Flightsoft but never get an e-mail in return.)I spend

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Guest Toni Rauch

TinoI don't think you're correct in your suggestion that other publishers are hardly ever discussed whilst Ariane seems to be a 'hot' topic.If you go through the threads and archives, you'll find that very many people have voiced their displeasure when products and developers/publishers, particularly commercial ones, have upset them.Of course I cannot speak for others, but what upsets me more than anything else about Ariane is the extreme lengths used to mask their identity, whereabouts etc. There is something bizarre about it and at the least, suggests 'something fishy'. After all, if you've nothing to hide, why hide?The same cannot be said of any other FS publisher to the best of my knowledge. They all have contact details, answer in their real names, have real addresses etc. and are completely open and honest (usually) in their dealings with their customers. You may not like what they say, or have issues with them or their products, but they don't 'hide behind a rock'. And 99 times out 100, they come out and discuss the issues and at least 'face their critics'.Ariane is the exception to this. They never answer questions raised here (and on other forums), don't reveal their real names, hide their trading address & phone numbers etc. whilst at the same time use questionable tactics to persuade you to spend your money with them.It's that basic underlying dishonesty, coupled with a history of unanswered questions and plethora of complaints, that some (including myself) find so irratating.I have no doubts whatsoever that if other publishers treated their buying public in a similar way, they too would elicit the same comments from the community they rely on for their very existence.Toni.

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Guest B52Drivr

Toni,For God's sake, stick a sock in it . . . pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze fine something else to harp about! I'm not even taking up for A or PT or whatever, just please find another subject! This one is getting really long in the tooth.Clay

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Guest Coneman

Isn't that the job of the moderators to tell someone to stick a sock in it, if they find something off topic or offensive? Just wondering.Todd

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>Toni,>>For God's sake, stick a sock in it . . . pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze>fine something else to harp about! I'm not even taking up for>A or PT or whatever, just please find another subject! This>one is getting really long in the tooth.>>Clay>I agree!!!!!!!!Talk about beating a dead horse!Not to mention BORING.


Ark

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Guest B52Drivr

Well, you would think so, my friend . . . as everything else get's locked or edited. LOL. Perhaps, being Sunday they have the day off.In any event, I, as does Toni and everyone else in a free world, has the right to thier opinion . . . and although I may not agree, I will defend his right to speak his mind . . .no matter what I feel about the content.Regards to allClay

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Guest MiguelSantos

Hi guys,I must say first of all, that I never saw Ariane website (or the other names that they had before), since the moment I saw some posts and news regarding theire practices. And I refuse to support "guys" like these. They don't bring nothing good to the business, and I'm talking as a costumer. I'm not a publisher or ever create what so ever for the FS, unless to myself.I'm with you Tino, too, as I recently bought the two packages from Flightsoft, and I didn't care to contact them what so ever, since I notice from the 5 frist contact minutes that I made a real big mistake. But my mistake started when I took in consideration a review that appear at one of the General Forum site (I don't remember wich of them) making the "Fly to Hong Kong" just a great product, and in 2003, with FS2002, with so incredible payware seceneries, more incredible freeware ones, how in the hell that guy could consider this as a good deal!!!! I was taken in mistake! Thank you sir! You probably have a comission with them!!But that was my mistake, basically because the lack of indepedent information. I didn't like the site, but I made a try and lost my bets.I already had bad bets with Just Flight, when I bought FS2000 products for FS2002, whitout beeing noticed to that fact, but then, I was very novice to this....I think that Wilco Airport 2002 isn't so great, specially because of the frames rate, but life is like this: sometimes we win the our bets, sometimes we loose.So, in this days, when I decide to buy a plane or a scenery, is because I saw their site, I saw their forum, I saw comments, I saw the publisher atitude (and this is the most important issue), and decided that the "value for the money" well worth a try.Based on these, I will never buy something from Ariane, Flightsoft, and hardly from Perfect Flight and small others, but definitly I will buy almost every piece of software from Phoenix, Dreamfleet, Simflyers, PMDG, Simwings, PTSIM and many others. Because I liked theire atitude and incredible products! Period! Even with small and minor bugs that they might have, almost for sure the support will solve that!Final comments. We don't need to see this as a vendetta, but as a place to inform everybody of what is going on the market, so that the costumers, all of us, don't buy flops without a notice!! Right now I'm searching the forums regarding information on 1 or 2 products that I want to buy, but I need to be sure that they worth the money...Just my thoughts.Miguel

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