always turning left

[peppy197 165]

How can I eliminate the left turning when powering up for a takeoff?Without adjusting trim and or compensating aileron roll to the right which causes subsequent turing to the right once airborne?Allen

[Jacoba 55]

How can I eliminate the left turning when powering up for a takeoff?Without adjusting trim and or compensating aileron roll to the right which causes subsequent turing to the right once airborne?Allen

What you are experiencing is an accurate portrayal of a take off roll in a prop plane, its called gyroscopic precession which comes from the rotation of the crankshaft and propeller causes the airplane to yaw to the left. This is just one of the physical factors in "left turning tendencies" there are four of them. They are greatest during take off roll at max power, just give your bird a boot full of right rudder and enjoy the realism!

[peppy197 165]

What you are experiencing is an accurate portrayal of a take off roll in a prop plane, its called gyroscopic precession which comes from the rotation of the crankshaft and propeller causes the airplane to yaw to the left. This is just one of the physical factors in "left turning tendencies" there are four of them. They are greatest during take off roll at max power, just give your bird a boot full of right rudder and enjoy the realism!

I used to fly real world pipers and this roll to the left was hardly noticed....In XP it seems to be exagerated 100 fold :( A

[Avcomware 1]

Hi peppy, and everyone."In XP it seems to be exagerated 100 foldLeft turning tendency."You are correct, there are many other exaggerated behaviors in XP, the worst being Ground handling with Xwind conditions. Some of these issues are Controller related and the inability to select individual axis Null zones, which should be addressed, in the near future, I hope.Post here some more info about your System, XP Version, Controller, Aircraft, etc. that you are having problems with, and you can get better help. Until then you can try to see if the information I have listed below helps you, play with the numbers, but if you are Not having a problem in Straight and Level at Cruise, things get more complicated.In general here are some of the things that I modify in order to make the acfts more stable and manageable. You may also want to set your Controls "Joystick & Equipment" screen, and pull all the six sliders, Control response and Stability augmentation, to full right and increase the Null zone, and see if it helps. Using "Plane-Maker.exe"Fix Left turning tendency, Cruise / max speed / 175 Kts Straight and Level Standard>Control Geometry>Trim &Speed> Aileron>Trim Tab adjust +0.012 Was 0.0You can also try to use the Radii setting, here is an example that I used for the RV6:The basic formulas used to dampen some effects, use the x2 or x3 depending on how much travel / how twitchy the acft. is, you have in your controllers:Pitch_Radius = (wing_span * 0.15)*2Yaw_Radius = ((Pitch_Radius + Roll_Radius) * 0,66)*2Roll_Radius = (total_length * 0.18)*2Radii Rv-6 pitch-4.90, yaw 5.20 rol 2.50 CG Rv-6 long -.70 .00 .70 vert .00TV

[Geofa 108]

Hi peppy, and everyone."In XP it seems to be exagerated 100 foldLeft turning tendency."You are correct, there are many other exaggerated behaviors in XP, the worst being Ground handling with Xwind conditions. Some of these issues are Controller related and the inability to select individual axis Null zones, which should be addressed, in the near future, I hope.Post here some more info about your System, XP Version, Controller, Aircraft, etc. that you are having problems with, and you can get better help. Until then you can try to see if the information I have listed below helps you, play with the numbers, but if you are Not having a problem in Straight and Level at Cruise, things get more complicated.In general here are some of the things that I modify in order to make the acfts more stable and manageable. You may also want to set your Controls "Joystick & Equipment" screen, and pull all the six sliders, Control response and Stability augmentation, to full right and increase the Null zone, and see if it helps. Using "Plane-Maker.exe"Fix Left turning tendency, Cruise / max speed / 175 Kts Straight and Level Standard>Control Geometry>Trim &Speed> Aileron>Trim Tab adjust +0.012 Was 0.0You can also try to use the Radii setting, here is an example that I used for the RV6:The basic formulas used to dampen some effects, use the x2 or x3 depending on how much travel / how twitchy the acft. is, you have in your controllers:Pitch_Radius = (wing_span * 0.15)*2Yaw_Radius = ((Pitch_Radius + Roll_Radius) * 0,66)*2Roll_Radius = (total_length * 0.18)*2Radii Rv-6 pitch-4.90, yaw 5.20 rol 2.50 CG Rv-6 long -.70 .00 .70 vert .00TV

Thanks TV. My feeling is this is much good in this sim-but it hasn't been manifested yet for the typical end user-especially those who just want to give it a go from the start and not tweak. To me that is not an unrealistic expectation from the end user to just be able to fly it from its' defaults and get an experience-but from what I can see at least now-lots of tweaking is needed-if one wants to see what this sim is capable of.Unfortunately imho many will not be willing to do this and will put it on the shelf to collect dust. A shame...

[peppy197 165]

Thanks TV. My feeling is this is much good in this sim-but it hasn't been manifested yet for the typical end user-especially those who just want to give it a go from the start and not tweak. To me that is not an unrealistic expectation from the end user to just be able to fly it from its' defaults and get an experience-but from what I can see at least now-lots of tweaking is needed-if one wants to see what this sim is capable of.Unfortunately imho many will not be willing to do this and will put it on the shelf to collect dust. A shame...

Thanks for the constructive help with the problemal

[Avcomware 1]

Hi, Geof."……My feeling is this is much good in this sim-but it hasn't been manifested yet for the typical end user-especially those who just want to give it a go from the start and not tweak. To me that is not an unrealistic expectation from the end user to just be able to fly it from its' defaults and get an experience-but from what I can see at least now-lots of tweaking is needed-if one wants to see what this sim is capable of."I agree. They should try to pay more attention to consistency and the ability to use the models As released, without having to tweak them. It is my hope that they will read some of these messages and listen to the customer base. I mainly use the XP for IMC / IFR simulation flying. But it has the potential to be an overall good sim, with some adjustments.Until then all we can do is try to relay some of the changes that we make, in the hope that they help others, and they don't have to reinvent the wheel, so to speak. I could not find any detailed information, at least not compiled in a single place, that explains all the settings, and how they affect what. As I find things I will try to post a file with what I do, to get an acft. to meet some of my expectations / desires. TV

[Geofa 108]

Hi, Geof."

[Guest AVN8tr]

Really.. i dunno i feel the flight models are generally pretty decent, and given that the OP never specified an aircraft, I would be more inclined to believe he has a calibration error than anything else. And seriously how can anyone complain about plane-maker versus FS... when pmdg and level-d are the only good aircraft out there. I've tried at least 50 XP planes and only had a problem with one and it was an easy fix.

[LAdamson 240]

Really.. i dunno i feel the flight models are generally pretty decent, and given that the OP never specified an aircraft, I would be more inclined to believe he has a calibration error than anything else. And seriously how can anyone complain about plane-maker versus FS... when pmdg and level-d are the only good aircraft out there. I've tried at least 50 XP planes and only had a problem with one and it was an easy fix.

I've complained about lot's of "plane maker" models. The stock Vans RV's that come with X-Plane are awful. Too twitchy, airspeeds way off, and the planes pitch up with flap deployment instead of down. I guess they think they're Cessnas or something.....There is a excellent single engine payware aircraft for FS, that's not an RV, but it's sure close for portraying flight fidelity; and it's not a PMDG or Level-D. In the meantime, the "awful" stock RV6 has been modified, and modified again, as can be seen just a few replies up. The point here, is that what comes out of plane maker is going to need a lot of tweaking.....................just as the better MSFS models have. You can't just throw dimensions in, and have it spit out something that people like me, will find realistic or satisfying.L.Adamson

[LAdamson 240]

I agree. They should try to pay more attention to consistency and the ability to use the models As released, without having to tweak them.

That's the big problem I see too. We don't need life size controls, or heavier springs in joysticks/ yokes. This is most of the reply I wrote this morning at another forum in regards to X-Planes that have that over sensitive feel about them.Except for possibly helicopters, I don't believe that you need realistic amounts of travel. Since I got use to 2" joysticks for radio control, so can anyone else. And come to think of it, I used 2" joysticks for lot's of R/C helicopters too. It's true, that even high hour pilots, as well as none pilots will tend to over control desktop simulators as well as R/C planes the first few times. My real life RV6A requires only a fraction of it's aileron travel, for most operations including a good degree of banking for the pattern. I fly tight patterns... :D I don't like heavier springs, because it doesn't feel realistic. My RV responds to a very light touch in roll, that I hardly think about. But you do feel the resistance of airloads on the flight surfaces; yet it's all very balanced. My Saitek X-45 joystick had a heavy spring, that I cut a few loops out of. My Saitek X-52 feels just right as it comes stock.My impression, is that many X-Plane models do seem twitchy. They need some dampening or artificial stability. I use artificial stability because I don't like the sensation of constant turbulence. Never the less, with tweaks here and there, many problems can be worked out. Good models in other sims have to be tweaked too. L.Adamson

[peppy197 165]

That's the big problem I see too. We don't need life size controls, or heavier springs in joysticks/ yokes. This is most of the reply I wrote this morning at another forum in regards to X-Planes that have that over sensitive feel about them.L.Adamson

YeahI think that tendency was to turn right not left.Regardless, airplanes are responsive with a feeling of some weight behind that yoke. I was once in a real DC3 cockpit, told: "it's all yours" >>> a slight 10 degree turn on the yoke, beieve it or not, did NOT tend to turn the plane almost upside down It barely rolled at all.But here in Xp you can pretend you are in an acrobatic 747True, some XPlanes models are better than others, just like real peopleYet, I love the looks of XP and the blending of weather colors etc....maybe not the 88% coverage of a large city with 8 story autogen thoal

[Guest AVN8tr]

I think it's important to remember that the application has it's origins as an Engineering app and not necessarily a game. The flight model isn't complete but i think there are practical limits to what is and isn't useful depending on your situation. One half of me thinks yes it's cool we have an FAA grade engine that constantly keeps getting more advanced, the gamer half says hey why not have a subset of that so there is forward compatibility. .

[bryandc 0]

Hi peppy, and everyone."In XP it seems to be exagerated 100 foldLeft turning tendency."You are correct, there are many other exaggerated behaviors in XP, the worst being Ground handling with Xwind conditions. Some of these issues are Controller related and the inability to select individual axis Null zones, which should be addressed, in the near future, I hope.Post here some more info about your System, XP Version, Controller, Aircraft, etc. that you are having problems with, and you can get better help. Until then you can try to see if the information I have listed below helps you, play with the numbers, but if you are Not having a problem in Straight and Level at Cruise, things get more complicated.In general here are some of the things that I modify in order to make the acfts more stable and manageable. You may also want to set your Controls "Joystick & Equipment" screen, and pull all the six sliders, Control response and Stability augmentation, to full right and increase the Null zone, and see if it helps. Using "Plane-Maker.exe"Fix Left turning tendency, Cruise / max speed / 175 Kts Straight and Level Standard>Control Geometry>Trim &Speed> Aileron>Trim Tab adjust +0.012 Was 0.0You can also try to use the Radii setting, here is an example that I used for the RV6:The basic formulas used to dampen some effects, use the x2 or x3 depending on how much travel / how twitchy the acft. is, you have in your controllers:Pitch_Radius = (wing_span * 0.15)*2Yaw_Radius = ((Pitch_Radius + Roll_Radius) * 0,66)*2Roll_Radius = (total_length * 0.18)*2Radii Rv-6 pitch-4.90, yaw 5.20 rol 2.50 CG Rv-6 long -.70 .00 .70 vert .00TV

It is exactly this problem that keeps me from investing more time and energy into Xplane. with few excepttions every plane rolls left on takeoff. It doesn't matter how ailerons or rudder is trimmed it just wants to do it. In my estimation this is the biggest flaw in Xplane. Some of the third party guys seem to have fixed the issue quite well (i.e. the Airbus series). That business about the engine torque pulling is nonsense.FSX does not do it and that is a joy to fly. Xplane is an utter frustration. I am closing Xplane, trying to forget that i paid money for it, and will stick with the realism of FSX.

[LAdamson 240]

It is exactly this problem that keeps me from investing more time and energy into Xplane. with few excepttions every plane rolls left on takeoff. It doesn't matter how ailerons or rudder is trimmed it just wants to do it. In my estimation this is the biggest flaw in Xplane. Some of the third party guys seem to have fixed the issue quite well (i.e. the Airbus series). That business about the engine torque pulling is nonsense.FSX does not do it and that is a joy to fly. Xplane is an utter frustration. I am closing Xplane, trying to forget that i paid money for it, and will stick with the realism of FSX.

For starters, I'm not a real fan of X-Plane and may never be. I still prefer FSX with FS9 close behind.However, in regards to the airplane pulling left --------- single engine planes will do that. At least if the prop turns clockwise from the cockpit view.As far as sims go, I find that some over do the effect, some are not enough, and some seem to wander from right to left too easily. This applies to both X-Plane and MSFS. Jet's won't do it because there is not a spiral prop blast hitting the tail. Twins may not have the problem because the props are counter-rotating, or the spiral blast misses the tail. There is also a torque effect, but that usually depends on engine size versus aircraft size and weight, and there is also P-factor which occures when the prop is at an angle to the oncoming airstream ---- as in a climbout.Generally, trimming isn't enough. You need some good right rudder; even in a Cessna 172. If you don't have rudder pedals, then you can use auto-rudder in MSFS; and I'm not sure of the X-Plane setting. Twist grips and keyboards also work, but I much prefer pedals. Otherwise, I'd go with an auto-rudder setup.Using my "full size" Van's RV6A as an example........I have to use a lot of right rudder on the takeoff roll and climbout. If I didn't, it would hit the left side runway lights in just a few hundred feet. It's got an engine that produces a lot of power for the size of airplane, plus a constant speed prop that's like low gear. As I apply the last third of throttle, it even wants to torque to the left, and I can feel it. Once I get up to around 100 knots, the rudder and it's fixed trim tab allow less pressure on the right rudder pedal. In cruise flight, I don't need any rudder at all. But I had to experiment and re-adjust the metal trim tab to keep the "ball" in the center. This is where "in-flight" adjustable rudder trims have an advantage, and you should be able to assign a key/button for both MSFS and X-Plane. L.Adamson