Hello,

Sorry for this rather long financial sideline not exactly in the line with the topic....

Methink it's completely in the line of the topic...When discuss about piracy activities ... automatically .. money (finances) is involved :)Regards.Gus.

There are assumptions being made, and they are just that: assumptions.1 - There is no fact to support the statement that price controls piracy.2 - There is no fact to support the statement that developers are greedy.

Just to put a bit of "human perspective" on this discussion, consider the following...Overall, I earn less than what is considered "minimum wage" (unless you use a third-world country as a measuring point)...Does that appear to be "too greedy" to anyone?Understand that this is my choice; I do this because I enjoy it, certainly not because it pays well!

There are assumptions being made, and they are just that: assumptions.1 - There is no fact to support the statement that price controls piracy.2 - There is no fact to support the statement that developers are greedy.

Coudln't agree more Ed and that is not related to our working relationship but rather the previous assumptions as stated are not factual.Consider "Rebate Programs" which, at least in my mind, are dishonest marketing schemes designed to "fool the customer" into thinking he has a "bargain".Standard Markup Example: Auto A has a value of X and is sold at Y to obtain a 3% Profit.Rebate Markup Example: Auto A has a value of X and is sold at Z which equals a 12% direct overcharge which returns to the customer in the form of a "rebate" of 4% thereby yielding a "so called Profit Margin" of 11%.What a bunch of hooey. :( One should never confuse an honest markup with a "rebate program".

There are assumptions being made, and they are just that: assumptions.

.And that's what a discussion is: jostling of assumptions. Unless, of course, when someone maxes out the ante with universal assumptions (e.g. "good" vs. "evil.")

... has a value of X ...

value is difficult to quantify. like the letters used by economist in their equations to describe consumer decision making. the letter is an assumptive, and why i laughed my way through my economics classes when gaining my BA ... only to find even better 'values' when completing my MS.folks seem to want a 'cost' to produce software. this is difficult to quantify. the number hours required to develop the software can be counted ... what is the value of the programmer? you need that 'value' number, an hourly wage for the programming team, in order to give a 'cost' to develop the software. yes, this is simplified as you also need to include costs like: Internet access, electrical power, computer purchase & maintenance, OS purchase, license rights for development software, license rights to the owner of say the aircraft being modeled, etc. etc.what is a fair wage for a programmer? $3.12/hr? or zero? IMO zero is what the person using stolen software believes a programmer is worth.--

Of course value, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. :( Absent a "Perceived Value" a customer has no basis to purchase a product.If a "Perceived Value" is high for a given item then those with resources will avail themselves.If a "Perceived Value" is low for a given item then even those with resources will tend to pass up the item.These are all very basic principles and the low "Perception of Value" for FS Addons in the community is a real factor in whether one indulges in theft or not.That is the reason that price levels, by themselves, have little impact on software theft problems faced by most vendors.In short, it still remains a personal decision whether to indulge in theft or not.

value is difficult to quantify. like the letters used by economist in their equations to describe consumer decision making. the letter is an assumptive, and why i laughed my way through my economics classes when gaining my BA ... only to find even better 'values' when completing my MS.folks seem to want a 'cost' to produce software. this is difficult to quantify. the number hours required to develop the software can be counted ... what is the value of the programmer? you need that 'value' number, an hourly wage for the programming team, in order to give a 'cost' to develop the software. yes, this is simplified as you also need to include costs like: Internet access, electrical power, computer purchase & maintenance, OS purchase, license rights for development software, license rights to the owner of say the aircraft being modeled, etc. etc.what is a fair wage for a programmer? $3.12/hr? or zero? IMO zero is what the person using stolen software believes a programmer is worth.--

Actually, according the outfits that I've worked for, the value of a senior programmer is around $200 US per hour...DJ

Actually, according the outfits that I've worked for, the value of a senior programmer is around $200 US per hour...

payware seems VERY cheap, doesn't it, when looking at the value of the time but forward by the programming teams; and the HIGH VALUE OF THE THE :( GIFT :( from freeware developers.--

payware seems VERY cheap, doesn't it, when looking at the value of the time but forward by the programming teams; and the HIGH VALUE OF THE THE :( GIFT :( from freeware developers.--

It certainly is! I love airplanes and flight simming, but I have to eat and support a family; consequently you won't find me doing what I do for free. Even a small company needs at least a 40% up front margin to make a 2 - 4 percent profit. When you add in the same margin for everyone who touches the product along the food chain a $50 to $100 product of the quality produced by some payware companies is a give away. In addition, most of the software market expects to make their investment back in the first 25% of sales - in large part because of piracy. If they make more it goes into that narrow profit margin after continuing costs less development cost. The fact that some developers are willing to invest their time for free is a wonderful thing, but few are in a position to do so.DJ

When I read some comments regarding the level of salaries considered here for programming a payware , I'm wondering if our world is not going crasy and forgets what are the priorities of life!!!!200 $ per hour for an addon for FS?!!!!600000$ per year salary supposing you work 10 hours per day for 300 days per year!!!!Gosh! We're driving here to the scandalous pay level of the traders in the financial world!Don't be surprised that european and american companies tend to export their productions to China and Asia!Let's be reasonable and back to reality and down to the cow's ground as the french say goes!!!

No one said any addon developer either earns or is worth $200 an hour.However, can you say we're worth only $3 an hour?

Very interesting discussion.I just want to add couple things. One regarding games in general: how come games on consoles are always more expensive than on PC? Even if it's a conversion from PS3 or XBOX (which add costs) it's still cheaper on PC. Is it because there's no piracy on consoles and developers can push prices up without consequences? If they can sell someting for PC with profit at 34.95GPB (I assume they not selling at loss) why the same game for PS3 costs 44.95GBP? Isn't that just greed?Obviously that can't be applied this to FS addons because there's no FSX for consoles :)Two: Support from FS addon developers.I bought plane from RealAir and I must say that their support is second to none. I had a problem with their plane configurator and I exchanged 5 emails with them in one day. Fast response and real willingnes to help. I would buy their products again witout thinking again. Well spent and well deserved money.On the other hand I bougt addon from SecondRealitySoftware (they have only one product, you may know what is it) and I must say that there's no support whatsoever from him. I and numerous other had problems with licensing, some people complain about having to wait a week or two for unlock code. The developer doesn't answer emails and his last post on the forum was in April. Forum moderators say he's one man and he's busy. My problem with licensing was making me unable to use 52$ addon. I was so desperate that I looked on TPB for a crack and surprise: he had enough time to post there asking people not to pirate his product but didn't have time to answer paying customers. If I had knew about these problems before I spent my money I'd have to think a lot about actually buying it. So I'm not surprised his product is being pirated. If I'm expected to pay 50$ or more for a piece of software I'd like it to run properly, and if it doesn't I expect some support. Some people will just say: it's not worth the hassle to be legit when thre's so much problems with that, I'll just get a pirate copy and have no problems.That is one of the causes of piracy, not only the price

What do you say to the pirates who try and get technical support?

What do you say to the pirates who try and get technical support?

Verify legitamacy, if illegitamate, refuse support. :(Again, there is no legal or moral obligation to provide thieves with a working copy of software.The same applies to support.