...and how could anyone not feel for developers feeling violated- and violated or raped are the only words I can think of if I saw my hard earned work pirated like this. In my case I'd stop developing.

And there is the major point I tried to make about nine pages ago!To me, it isn't so much any real or imagined loss of money! It is about feeling as though someone has taken a fishknife, sliced open my belly and ripped my out my guts...I'll bend over backwards to help anyone who's deserving; but I'll be darned if I'll bend over forwards for anyone! Ever!

The only direction I've seen it going is justification.I seriously can not grasp this mindset. :(

Mr. Wilson:I'm responding because I think your statement above applies to a message I posted a long time ago in this thread, a thread that died and oddly and unnecessarily made a resurrection!I think you are reading something in these posts that does not exist and/or taking things out of context.No one has said in any of the posts that have mentioned the reasons why pirates do what they do that it was justifiable. Some members are simply offering possible reasons why piracy exists. You cannot squash piracy if you don't understand or accept the root of the cause. Some are just discussing what "may be" the root of some piracy. I hate to see developers throw a blind eye or stick their heads in the sand just because they don't see what others see. I say remain open to opinions of others who actually are trying to be helpful.In my eyes I do not think what murderers, terrorists, or criminals in general do is justifiable. Justifiable or not it still exists.Todd

Geof, perhaps now you have a clearer understanding of what measures must be taken by commercial developers if they are to continue to "grow the hobby and provide realism and quality" to the majority of honest and upright users.As you recall from our Oshkosh conversations, there are, in the development community, certain techniques being explored which may actually stop this scourge in its tracks.Of course it applies to new releases only since none of us can close the door after the evil deeds are done.Honest and Upright flightsim enthusiasts are what made and will continue to make this hobby worthwhile.Let me take a moment and commend all in this hobby and community who have not indulged themselves in such despicable behaviour. :( :(

You cannot squash piracy if you don't understand or accept the root of the cause. Some are just discussing what "may be" the root of some piracy....

Todd,We understand why people steal. It is really quite simple.People steal because they want "something for nothing".In all the history of mankind, and in every society, theft has reared its ugly head and great measures have been taken to "secure" people and property from theft.In addition, great measures have been taken to pursue, prosecute, and punish the crime of theft.The attitudes shown in the PB link shows clearly what and how thieves think and act. Prisons in every nation are occupied with thieves and yet it continues.A long treatise on the "root cause of theft" offers absolutely nothing for you if your car is stolen from your driveway...In that case, preventive steps could have been taken by installing the latest anti theft GPS tracking technology which at least allows tracking. In our view, the most effective auto theft measure is the technology that disables the electrical and electronic circuits and rendor the auto unusable for the thief. Imagine if the disabling became permanent and the thief had nothing usable to resdistribute or resell.:( Please know that we as victims of theft, fully understand the root cause of theft and it ain't us. :(

Geof, perhaps now you have a clearer understanding of what measures must be taken by commercial developers if they are to continue to "grow the hobby and provide realism and quality" to the majority of honest and upright users.As you recall from our Oshkosh conversations, there are, in the development community, certain techniques being explored which may actually stop this scourge in its tracks.Of course it applies to new releases only since none of us can close the door after the evil deeds are done.Honest and Upright flightsim enthusiasts are what made and will continue to make this hobby worthwhile.Let me take a moment and commend all in this hobby and community who have not indulged themselves in such despicable behaviour. :( :(

I hope the scourge can be stopped-but can something else be put in place that will take these you know what up's by the neck, expose them as the cowards they are, and make them not employable for any walks of life and expose them as the criminals they are?

I hope the scourge can be stopped-but can something else be put in place that will take these you know what up's by the neck, expose them as the cowards they are, and make them not employable for any walks of life and expose them as the criminals they are?

Ha ha, we know that emotion well and would fully support any measure by law enforcement and courts to do just that.There was a time when folks were placed in stocks in town squares and subjected to public humiliation as a "thief".These days, as seen from the PB link, people are proud of the fact that they are thieves and that law, law enforcement, and courts are so ineffective as to be made a laughing stock.Again let me commend honest people who are still the majority by the way! :(

Todd,We understand why people steal. It is really quite simple.People steal because they want "something for nothing".In all the history of mankind, and in every society, theft has reared its ugly head and great measures have been taken to "secure" people and property from theft.In addition, great measures have been taken to pursue, prosecute, and punish the crime of theft.The attitudes shown in the PB link shows clearly what and how thieves think and act. Prisons in every nation are occupied with thieves and yet it continues.A long treatise on the "root cause of theft" offers absolutely nothing for you if your car is stolen from your driveway...In that case, preventive steps could have been taken by installing the latest anti theft GPS tracking technology which at least allows tracking. In our view, the most effective auto theft measure is the technology that disables the electrical and electronic circuits and rendor the auto unusable for the thief. Imagine if the disabling became permanent and the thief had nothing usable to resdistribute or resell.:( Please know that we as victims of theft, fully understand the root cause of theft and it ain't us. :(

Mr. Hamilton no need to clarify or give analogies addressed to me. I was responding to Mr. Wilson's comment and nothing more.I understand your position when your hard work is stolen. Don't assume that I am naive.Piracy exists. Developers do your best to protect your work.Personally I do not feel this thread has any useful life left in it as the discussion has long become stale. I will bow out - again! Todd

Personally I do not feel this thread has any useful life left in it as the discussion has long become stale. I will bow out - again!

I disagree. Though it is unlikely that anyone's mind is going to change one way or another from reading this thread, I find it particularly satisfying to see it going on this long with nothing more than an occasional reminder to remain civilized. This is extremely rare for a thread of this nature, and therefore I believe, or at least hope that it has plenty of life left in it. Developers and end users getting together to discuss the topic in a rational manner is always a great thing.

Mr. Wilson:I'm responding because I think your statement above applies to a message I posted a long time ago in this thread, a thread that died and oddly and unnecessarily made a resurrection!I think you are reading something in these posts that does not exist and/or taking things out of context.No one has said in any of the posts that have mentioned the reasons why pirates do what they do that it was justifiable. Some members are simply offering possible reasons why piracy exists. You cannot squash piracy if you don't understand or accept the root of the cause. Some are just discussing what "may be" the root of some piracy. I hate to see developers throw a blind eye or stick their heads in the sand just because they don't see what others see. I say remain open to opinions of others who actually are trying to be helpful.In my eyes I do not think what murderers, terrorists, or criminals in general do is justifiable. Justifiable or not it still exists.Todd

The reason why piracy exists is that some people want something without paying for it and are prepared to steal. It's as simple as that.Excuses relating to price, qualirty, support, etc. are completely irrelevant in thhis context. FS add-ons are a luxury - no one needs them.

Hello,I suppose .. all of you had readed this (so easy to find .)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_inf...ent_of_softwareRegards.Gus.

Hello,I suppose .. all of you had readed this (so easy to find .)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_inf...ent_of_softwareRegards.Gus.

That quote by Bill Gates at the bottom was an eye catcher.

Now if only I sold addons at the volume of Microsoft Windows sales. :(

I have found this thread VERY interesting. After 11 pages I am not surprised it has taken many twists and turns, some of it heated but I commend you posters for keeping it civil enough where we can keep reading. Let me put my two in of what just happened a few days ago.FSDreamteam has a promotion going so I decided to d/l and try their KLAS. I like the fact you can try it out to see if it performs ok on your system before you decide to purchase. Everything went without a hitch until I re-started FS after the trial period ended (like 7 minutes). Upon re-start of FS2004 I got an error window saying my Cloud9 software was installed correctly but would need to be activated. It repeated this message for several of my Cloud9 packages. "Wait a minute", I already installed and activated these a while back? Why is one scenery affecting another un-related add-on??? Of course my initial typical simmer thoughts were "what is this heavy-handed, big brother tactics taking place.? So I put in a scenery from one developer and it effects others? THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!!!! But I took a deep breathe and sort of figured Cloud9 must be using the same type protection FSDreamteam uses. I went to the Dreamteam forums, asked cordially what was happening and within hours I had a nice, quick reply and a link to explain what was happening.I guess I could have stomped my feet complaining as a customer about this intrusion but I also come from the side of a budding developer (ha!, well some day). So I understand some steps need to be taken to thwart the bad guys. I too took a look at Pirate Bay and I must say out of the 100's of FS addons, I did not see a single on for FSDreamteam. That says something for their protection.So, yes, I must re-activate my Cloud9 software. Is that REALLY gonna kill me to take a few extra minutes, a few clicks on a website? Hardly. But I admit I did have that initial "irked" feeling when it first happened. But I understand what they are trying to do and I am all for protection with minimal inconvenience. Not really making a point one way or another - just a slice of life from one simmer to another.Clutch maker of a little addon called 9Dragons

Upon re-start of FS2004 I got an error window saying my Cloud9 software was installed correctly but would need to be activated. It repeated this message for several of my Cloud9 packages. "Wait a minute", I already installed and activated these a while back? Why is one scenery affecting another un-related add-on??? Of course my initial typical simmer thoughts were "what is this heavy-handed, big brother tactics taking place.? So I put in a scenery from one developer and it effects others? THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!!!!

incidents like this is what, IMO, developers DO NOT WANT ... even if easily fixed. so many end-users will not take a few steps to see what caused the error/fault.just last week a user flamed flight1 about a product that was 'garbage' and upset they had wasted his/her money. OK ... flight1 has a 30 day 100% return policy that is clearly outlined on their site and during purchase (and if i remember correctly even when installing the software).--

The reason why piracy exists is that some people want something without paying for it and are prepared to steal. It's as simple as that.Excuses relating to price, qualirty, support, etc. are completely irrelevant in thhis context. FS add-ons are a luxury - no one needs them.

Of course they are luxury, but does it mean that if I buy one I don't need support if it doesn't work? Because I don't need the addon? If the developer doesn't give a flying monkey about custome why the customer should be bothered about developer?Does anybodey from developers community wish to comment on all this EULA nonsense? Any explanations why they are what they are?