Hello,Right.So ..if I can ask why all the fuss (manytime) when a poor sod post about where is a NO-CD ? cause his CD N

Because it's the oldest trick in the book. If his #4 CD were really unreadable he'd be asking for a #4 CD image and not just the no-CD crack. What people like him have are illegal copies of all four CDs (or an illegal installation from legitimate CDs) but they need the crack to be able to run.

Hold the phone there just a minute Mike. I'm not so sure that someone asking for that file is an automatic sign that he/she is knowingly up to no good. I had used FS9 for two years before I ever knew that NO CD crack was a violation of the EULA. Granted, the word "cracked" should have clued me in a little, but my point is that I asked for it once a long time ago, and I most certainly did not have any hidden agenda there.

Hold the phone there just a minute Mike. I'm not so sure that someone asking for that file is an automatic sign that he/she is knowingly up to no good. I had used FS9 for two years before I ever knew that NO CD crack was a violation of the EULA. Granted, the word "cracked" should have clued me in a little, but my point is that I asked for it once a long time ago, and I most certainly did not have any hidden agenda there.

Right, Jeremy. You're a legitimate user, as am I, and as most other people are. I should have instead asked the following rhetorical question ...Why doesn't anybody ever ask where they can get a copy of CD #1 or #2 or #3? I agree that these are not used very often, but have you EVER seen anybody ask for one of them?

Right, Jeremy. You're a legitimate user, as am I, and as most other people are. I should have instead asked the following rhetorical question ...Why doesn't anybody ever ask where they can get a copy of CD #1 or #2 or #3? I agree that these are not used very often, but have you EVER seen anybody ask for one of them?

And here's yet another ethical situation ...A while back I was briefly associated with RealWorldATC, who for technical reasons had been distributing various versions of SimConnect. I had an open conversation about this fact of unauthorized distribution with Phil Taylor, the FSX product manager, right here on Avsim, in the SimConnect forum. As I recall the conversation was spread over several posts over several days. Phil's only expressed concern was with the technical wisdom of RWATC's doing this, and not with the ethics of it.Yet Phil Taylor was not the Microsoft legal department. What RWATC did was absolutely in violation of the EULA as written, yet it was obviously fair use, or so it seemed to me. The ACES people used to read all the major FS forums so it's not as if Microsoft wasn't aware of what RWATC was doing, with me aiding and abetting. But as point man for RWATC on this issue I took the position that if Microsoft wasn't going to object, I wasn't going to try to stop RWATC.Your thoughts on this, people?

Hello,

(Presumably Ron Hamilton will say yes, you're wrong, but what do the rest of you think?)

Can't blame you as I used the NO-CD immediately after my first install of FS2004.I still have the 4 originals CD's and also made a complete backup on a DVD.So from ages .. my originals CD's had seen the CD drive tray twice or three time.Regards.Gus.

I realize now that I've been leading up to a point as follows:It's about fairness, not about legal technicalities. The cases involving me were all nominally illegal in a civil law sense but were all eminently fair. (Or so I believe.)Contrast this with freeware developer licenses where to violate the license is legal (yes, it is) but unfair (again, who cares about the technical state of the law).Looked at differently, the whole issue of vendor/customer rights in an age of digital intellectual property is an evolving body of law. Something that's legal today may become illegal tomorrow and vice-versa. But will the ethics and moralities of situations change? I don't think so. What's fair is always going to be what's fair, yes? ... ... Or no?

I realize now that I've been leading up to a point as follows:It's about fairness, not about legal technicalities. The cases involving me were all nominally illegal in a civil law sense but were all eminently fair. (Or so I believe.)Contrast this with freeware developer licenses where to violate the license is legal (yes, it is) but unfair (again, who cares about the technical state of the law).Looked at differently, the whole issue of vendor/customer rights in an age of digital intellectual property is an evolving body of law. Something that's legal today may become illegal tomorrow and vice-versa. But will the ethics and moralities of situations change? I don't think so. What's fair is always going to be what's fair, yes? ... ... Or no?

I always appreciate your point of view Mike, but this thread has gotten so out of whack that I don't even know what it is anymore. I seem to recall it began with that pirating story of the Lotus L-39, and since then it's taken more turns than NASCAR. I'm not sure that I follow what your overall point regarding piracy is. Surely you disapprove of it, yet in some cases you find it acceptable. Correct me if I'm wrong there. And as for the affect piracy has on developers, I'm still haven't seen your educated guesses turn into a point. I guess what I'm looking for is a summary from you on what all of this means from your point of view.

I always appreciate your point of view Mike, but this thread has gotten so out of whack that I don't even know what it is anymore. I seem to recall it began with that pirating story of the Lotus L-39, and since then it's taken more turns than NASCAR. I'm not sure that I follow what your overall point regarding piracy is. Surely you disapprove of it, yet in some cases you find it acceptable. Correct me if I'm wrong there. And as for the affect piracy has on developers, I'm still haven't seen your educated guesses turn into a point. I guess what I'm looking for is a summary from you on what all of this means from your point of view.

Okay, summary ...The cases where I find "it" acceptable are not piracy -- that's the whole point of my recent posts. In the end it's all about fairness versus unfairness to the developers/owners of intellectual property, not about either flagrant or technical violations of civil (or in some cases criminal) law.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxAs for my earlier posts, I don't have to -- can't -- define piracy but I know it when I see it. Even as a developer I don't have to define it, only defend against it -- and then only if I care ... And this requires recognition that all attempts by developers to protect themselves against the inroads of Bad Guys inevitably result in some degree of harm to the much larger body of customers who are Good Guys and who are the very lifeblood of the developers' businesses.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxAll piracy threads go out of whack because the subject is very complex and is fraught with societal implications. You invited an exploration of the issues, that's what we've all been doing here. It would be very difficult to stay strictly on-topic when the topic is so hard to define and has so many dimensions.

Actually... you strayed way beyond the confines of the discussion. :(This is about people uploading our products on the internet with the intent of offering it up for free to anyone who wants it. It's not about the No-CD FS issue.

Actually... you strayed way beyond the confines of the discussion. :(This is about people uploading our products on the internet with the intent of offering it up for free to anyone who wants it. It's not about the No-CD FS issue.

I never read the early part of the thread. But even if I had (and I suppose I should have), it was up to you or the the mod to rerail the discussion and request a new thread for the other stuff, yes? Just as I'm going to do on the subject of optimal pricing, yes?

Still off topic, I apologize, yet this made me a bit angry.Mike, it is completely unfair to categorize people asking about a no-cd as pirates. Wouldn't you think if they can figure out how to pirate and properly install that game that they'd know where to find no-cd files. I use no-cd files for every single game on my computer and have no problems with anyone using them.And why the hell would a 'legitimate' user ask for a #4 CD image worth 700mb when a 2mb file does the job.p.s....anyone wanting to ask...go to gamecopyworld :(

I never read the early part of the thread. But even if I had (and I suppose I should have), it was up to you or the the mod to rerail the discussion and request a new thread for the other stuff, yes? Just as I'm going to do on the subject of optimal pricing, yes?

Yes Mike, I know I don't have the fancy bold red letters yet, but that mod you refer to is me right now, and that's exactly what I did a few posts up. There's nothing wrong with the direction this thread has taken. If there was I would do what needed done, which in this case was to ask for your summary of all discussed since this thread started going a few different directions.

Still off topic, I apologize, yet this made me a bit angry.Mike, it is completely unfair to categorize people asking about a no-cd as pirates. Wouldn't you think if they can figure out how to pirate and properly install that game that they'd know where to find no-cd files. I use no-cd files for every single game on my computer and have no problems with anyone using them.And why the hell would a 'legitimate' user ask for a #4 CD image worth 700mb when a 2mb file does the job.p.s....anyone wanting to ask...go to gamecopyworld :(

I surrender on the no-CD crack issue, okay?

Yes Mike, I know I don't have the fancy bold red letters yet, but that mod you refer to is me right now, and that's exactly what I did a few posts up. There's nothing wrong with the direction this thread has taken. If there was I would do what needed done, which in this case was to ask for your summary of all discussed since this thread started going a few different directions.

Jeremy, I know you're the mod in question, I probably should have used your name, my apologies. I'm glad you don't have a problem with the direction of this thread -- but apparently WarpD does though he didn't say so earlier. This is his thread, and he's objecting, so how about you or I open a new thread on the general subject of piracy. I'll wait to see what you do.

Jeremy, I know you're the mod in question, I probably should have used your name, my apologies. I'm glad you don't have a problem with the direction of this thread -- but apparently WarpD does though he didn't say so earlier. This is his thread, and he's objecting, so how about you or I open a new thread on the general subject of piracy. I'll wait to see what you do.

I think it might be a good idea to let this topic cool for a little while. Maybe you can take your time to put together those figures, which I'm looking very forward to by the way, and then start a thread on that. This horse has been beaten to glue. I will say that I am very pleased and greatful that this thread has not turned into personal assaults and disrespect like this topic usually invites. Take your time, I'm wanting you to give me a good education on this one.