something to think about...

[Mike S KPDX 597]

I was just reviewing a story for another package for the UK (Gatwick 2004 from Online Simulations). And I remember another one just a little while ago called UK VFR (or similar). Then I started thinking, I have seen actually a ton (that's tonne to all you other ones) of addons for the UK. Literally airports and scenery of payware quality by the dozens if not hundreds.Well, this got me thinking that I should maybe check out the UK area as it obviously must be a flat green table in FS2k2 to justify all these high quality addons. Then I did a quick bit of checking and found out this about my homestate in the US:The total land mass of Oregon is 96,003 sq miles.The total land mass of England, Scotland and Wales is 88,788 sq miles!Wow, this made me think, can you imagine what it would be like to have the quantity of addons that the UK folks have for just ONE medium sized state in the U.S.?! Think about this, there is not one single payware addon for this state of Oregon, not one. At that, there is only a handful of freeware addons, mostly from FS2k. I suspect that on the whole this is probably true for most of the U.S. Yes, I am aware of the popular payware airports from Simflyers, but what? A dozen or so for 50 states?Anyways, just got me thinking and now I have finally come to realize just why there are so many simmers in the UK, my hats off to you gentlemen and good flying to ya.(rant mode off)... thanks for reading. Again, this is not a flame but purely just thinking outloud.

[Guest bones]

Thank you Mike..We are indeed lucky in the UK - I'm not sure why there are so many active designers over here but I'm certainly not going to complain about it. :)As well as a handful of extremely good payware scenery releases there are several dozen freeware designers busy at airfield work. Some designers even specialise in making town centres, oil rigs or power stations!boneshttp://fsaviation.net

[Guest AAF]

Yes, but think about how many flightsimmers there probably are in Oregon. Now think about how many flightsimmers are in the UK. The number is probably much higher in the UK than Oregon. Such are my thoughts, anyway.

[spotlope 0]

Yeah, I think our population density is a tad lighter here in Oregon than in the British Isles! The last census data I saw had Oregon at about 3.5 million souls. I think London alone has that number beat by a lot. So yes, probably a great many more flightsimmers I'd venture ;-).One state (just to the north of Oregon) that *has* gotten a lot of attention is Washington. I'm thinking specifically of the all the great GeoRender scenery from Lago, not to mention the work of talented freeware scenery designers like Bob Bernstein and others. I'm thinking about concentrating more on Oregon myself once I've gotten the MAAM field in the bag. There are a lot of interesting airports in great locations in this state.

[ckukmale 30]

What you need is a clone of Gary Summons in Oregon.Then you can have Oregon 2000 scenery...heheheheOregon I feel is one of the USA's less well known states.If I walked around in my town and asked people to name a couple of states in American I am sure that Oregon wouldnt be mentioned.Most two I reckon would be California and Florida and saying that there isnt really that much scenery for those states really.I think that the UK must have the most 3rd party scenery followed next by germany and Spain. Thats at a quick guess.Craig Kiltie

[Guest jason2112]

Yes, the coverage of Germany is quite nice as well :) German Airports 1-4 gives you 35 very nicely done commercial airports (I did not even know there were so many in my country ;)).In addition to that I have VFR Scenery Germany 1, which includes numerous GA fields in my area, combined with mesh, landclass and correct rivers (!!!). There's also the VFR airfields series which I don't have.Germany now feels very good in the sim, but I guess it should, because these 5 packages cost me 40$ each. But it was worth it :)VOlker :]

[Guest]

just to add to that...you also need to take into account that the UK has nearly twice the population of the whole of Canada...so yes you're right that the density is pretty dam high...that's probably the main reason...also another interesting point...you mentioned the great Georender series...even the maker of these is living in London lol...oh well...maybe one day you will get your wish...regards, Olioss

[Wolfko 0]

Yeah, I think you hit it on the spot. There is more interest in UK add ons, because there live lots more people than in Oregon and subsequently I assume there are also more flightsimmers in the UK than in Oregon. In the UK there live between 50 and 60 Million people, allone on the London area around 7 - 8 Million (please correct me, if I'm wrong).Also the default FS 2002 Oregon is very well done. One of my favorite areas to fly in FS2002 is along the Columbia River from its mouth along the Gorge up to Chelan in Washington state - just gorgious! This area does not need any enhancement! ;-)Wolfgang

[Jeff Nielsen 1,386]

Mike,The main reason why we started in the UK is because we do all our sceneries "on location", usually with the cooperation of the airport itself. This means we film and take stills on site.The good news is we are moving back to the states after EGKK 2004. We have already started filming at a US airport (and the city as well). So far I was able to take aerial shots from a year 2000 172sp which I was using for type training since EB has no more sundowners. We have also filmed on the ramp, taxiways, and RWY's, of a Class B Airport. We will annnounce that scenery series very soon.BTW, Oregon would be a very nice one to do as well, and may not be to far around the corner.Jeff D. NielsenCEOOnline Simulation Solutions, LLCKansas City, Mo., USA (KMCI)816-365-2983

[Mike S KPDX 597]

thanks for all your replies.I would like to say that I am not complaining about Oregon in particular but just the 'relative' lack of similar addons for the U.S. You could have easily picked a state, any state - we have 50 of them. I fully understand that it is a question of 'user density' so to speak.Let it be know that I for one would pay $100 for a CD that included one high res major airport for each U.S. state. Yet I somehow sense that would be a loser for the developer of such (in fact I am sure of it!).Anyway, I guess I am just jealous at heart.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,386]

Mike,Then you'll love us because we are a group of simmers who just happen to have made a business out of it. We try to stay away from the obvious popular airports and try to do something that will generate a 'want' or excitement for people. We figure the money we make will come over time if we do things the 'right' way, or 'our' way. We have sold LCY to all continents. You wouldn't believe where some of the orders have come from, so user density means very little to us.We are concentrating on groups of areas that will appeal to people who want to fly for just 1 hour or 3 hours in any type of aircraft.Our scenery team has developed some tricks for making very 'high-res' as scenery, as you say, while maintaining the 'frame-rates' or fludity of the sim itself.So far the response has been awesome with our LCY scenery even though we were limited to not having animations or dynmaics due to MS itself.The funny thing is that we never intended to get into the scenery design business, as you can see from our web site www.flyoss.com , note the FSATCN project. The person we brought on for our graphics area just happened to be a 'crack' scenery designer and the best in textures, IMHO. As with any business and a project of that magnitude we needed to start generating some income..so he offered up LCY, and we went from there. It was more fun than anything so we decided to keep doing scenery...further more..we decided to also promote the airports themselves..as you can see from our videos. The videos were'nt even intended to be marketing tools. It's funny how things just come together.Anyways..you can complain all you want to me..I view that as good customer feedback (or potential customer.grins)have a good one.Jeff D. NielsenCEOOnline Simulation Solutions, LLCKansas City, Mo., USA ( KMCI)816-365-2983 j.d.nielsen@onlinesimulationsolutions.comwww.onlinesimulationsolutions.com

[Guest]

thanks Jeff ;)

[cat 2]

Excellent post, Mike. This is an important issueand you have our sympathy. I too, would buy suchUS scenery.Peter Sydney Australia

[Jeff Nielsen 1,386]

Uh oh..peer pressure..we're listening.;) The details of our next scenery (US) after Gatwick are not far off.Jeff D. NielsenCEOOnline Simulation Solutions, LLCKansas City, Mo., USA ( KMCI)816-365-2983 j.d.nielsen@onlinesimulationsolutions.comwww.onlinesimulationsolutions.com

[Guest Smiley]

I'll make it 3 posters from Oregon in this thread :)I have an aerial picture of KPDX from over the north side of the Columbia River area at 1500'. Would that help to get the scenery rolling ? ;)How about Mt. St. Helens ?The northern Oregon Coast ?The Columbia River from the mouth to Bonneville Dam ?:)Kurt LivermoreBeaverton, ORPPL SEL