Anyone Try the Carenado Saratoga?

[Guest dougwells]

Has anyone flown the new Carenado Saratoga? I saw it was released and went to Flight1 to purchase it. Flight1 doesn't have it listed yet so I'll likely wait a day or two until they do (I love their install wrapper...works so well). In the meantime, I'd love to hear some reports.- How does the autopilot seem to work? I'm eager to try out the Altimatic IIIc?- Anybody put the RealityXP 430 or 530 in the panel yet? I'd appreciate a copy of the panel config if anyone has (I'm not so good at VC panel mods)- I understand the Arrow & Seneca had some handling challenges that were fixed with the first patch. How does the Saratoga handle- Are any of the Saratoga models turbocharged?Thanks!

[pontiuspilotus 6]

The autopilot has a pitch up/pitch down dial to control vertical speed. You can't dial in a target altitude; rather, one uses the Alt Hold switch when reaching target altitude. It works just as advertised in the manual. Having said that one can't engage lateral navigation AND use the pitch trim wheel at the same time. You can use the GPS to navigate via the Autopilot but any pitch changes will have to be manual. Alt Hold and Lateral Navigation will work together, however. I have not tried with Reality XP gauges, so can't comment.As far as flight dynamics it handles just fine on my system. No issues I can think of, for instance no sudden pitch up on take off.None of the models is turbocharged. Service ceiling for this one is circa 15,500 ft.

[Guest dougwells]

It works just as advertised in the manual. Having said that one can't engage lateral navigation AND use the pitch trim wheel at the same time. You can use the GPS to navigate via the Autopilot but any pitch changes will have to be manual. Alt Hold and Lateral Navigation will work together, however.

Thanks for the response. I pulled the trigger and, so far, have been impressed.Quick question -- where did you find the manual for the plane & autopilot? I cannot find the location where the installer placed it on my hard drive.....Thanks

[pontiuspilotus 6]

It's under Simobjects/Airplanes/Carenado Saratago. I think they forgot to place the shortcuts in the Windows Start section.I have to qualify my previous statement regarding the Autopilot. ROL-NAV and PITCH does work simultaneously so you can configure a climb, for instance, while following a GPS flight plan. Clicking on the Pitch switch seems to capture the current rate of climb, which you can modify via the Pitch Wheel.

[Guest dougwells]

It's under Simobjects/Airplanes/Carenado Saratago. I think they forgot to place the shortcuts in the Windows Start section.I have to qualify my previous statement regarding the Autopilot. ROL-NAV and PITCH does work simultaneously so you can configure a climb, for instance, while following a GPS flight plan. Clicking on the Pitch switch seems to capture the current rate of climb, which you can modify via the Pitch Wheel.

Found it...perfect! Thanks for the help....

[kiwikat 506]

The new Saratoga is great minus a few minor mapping problems that you probably won't notice unless you decide to repaint it.If you're interested in a turbo variant, I've put together an alternate cfg file that makes it turbocharged. I'm just about ready to release it. First I have to contact Carenado and see if they will let me put the changes on a forum. If you're interested, I'm posting updates on the modification at SOH in the FSX section. I'll post it here too when I've got permission.

[Guest dougwells]

The new Saratoga is great minus a few minor mapping problems that you probably won't notice unless you decide to repaint it.If you're interested in a turbo variant, I've put together an alternate cfg file that makes it turbocharged. I'm just about ready to release it. First I have to contact Carenado and see if they will let me put the changes on a forum. If you're interested, I'm posting updates on the modification at SOH in the FSX section. I'll post it here too when I've got permission.

I thought there might be a way to modify the cfg file to do this. Seems I had read about this in the past and it is pretty straight forward. I'll check out SOH for more details. Does the cfg modification also coordinate with the sound file (turbo has a tendency to "wind up"....when you first set full-power, you aim for 4-6inches less manifold pressure and then wait for the turbo to kick-in...has an associated winding up sound). Thanks for the heads up on you modification.Also -- has anyone installed the RealityXP 430 or 530? I'd love to see the changes needed in the panel.cfg file

[jfri 42]

Has anyone flown the new Carenado Saratoga? I saw it was released and went to Flight1 to purchase it. Flight1 doesn't have it listed yet so I'll likely wait a day or two Thanks!

You said Carenado Saratoga. I just got mail from FSD about a discounted Saratoga. Which would lead to the qyestion wgich Saratoga is best to pick?

[1mikel151 71]

You said Carenado Saratoga. I just got mail from FSD about a discounted Saratoga. Which would lead to the qyestion wgich Saratoga is best to pick?

Carenado since the FSD version looks like it is not FSX native.

[Guest dougwells]

I have the FSD and the Carenado Saratoga. I like the team at FSD and have enjoyed flying their Saratoga for the past two years .... However, no question, the Carenado Saratoga is a superior model. Two caveats on that...FSD Saratoga is turbocharged, which is nice, and FSD offers a 2D panel which makes swapping radios (ie RealtyXP430) easier.My sense is that someone here on Avsim will soon have the config changes for Carenado to emulate a turbocharged engine and (hopefully) have a solution for putting a RealtyXP 430 in the VC.Hope that helps....

[jfri 42]

I have the FSD and the Carenado Saratoga. I like the team at FSD and have enjoyed flying their Saratoga for the past two years .... However, no question, the Carenado Saratoga is a superior model. Two caveats on that...FSD Saratoga is turbocharged, which is nice, and FSD offers a 2D panel which makes swapping radios (ie RealtyXP430) easier.My sense is that someone here on Avsim will soon have the config changes for Carenado to emulate a turbocharged engine and (hopefully) have a solution for putting a RealtyXP 430 in the VC.Hope that helps....

In what way do you mean the Carenado model is superiour? Does it not have a 2D panel?

[Guest HoggyDog]

In what way do you mean the Carenado model is superiour? Does it not have a 2D panel?

No, it doesn't have a 2D panel. Also, my allegorical hat is off to the previous poster who mentioned that he was able to access the autopilot from the VC- I can't get that done. The only way I have been able to use the autopilot is via the key commands (Z toggles on/off, Ctrl-Z toggles Alt Hold, etc.) I have found NO way to capture a climb or descent gradient- when I mouse over the area of the AP, there is no tooltip telling me which switch/button/wheel does what, and the "hit boxes" for the vertical speed wheel are misplaced and unpredictable- one time, clicking in a certain place rolls the wheel up, the next time clicking in that exact same place rolls it down or has no effect at all. Very erratic, and without a tooltip to give you a clue, unusable. All my climbs and descents therefore have to be hand-flown.Also, the fuel pump, strobe, landing light and pitot heat switches are situated low on the left "wall" of the cockpit just forward of the yoke and can be seen from a normal piloting position only at a very oblique angle. Worse, these switches can't be viewed "head on" without major and awkward scrolling and manipulating of both axes of your "eyepoint," they have tooltips that show up only occasionally and like the Altimatic VS wheel, they have erratic and misplaced "hit boxes" that seem to change each time you fly the airplane- on one occasion, the only way to turn on the strobes was to hover over the fuel pump switch (!!!) and click. Even worse, there is NO Nav light switch (that I can find) anywhere in the aircraft. I am going to have to assign a dedicated joystick control (or keypress) to Nav Lights in order to control them. In fact, even after several night flights, I can neither confirm nor deny that this airplane even HAS Nav lights- I have never seen them on.A 2D cockpit with "normal" breakout views (throttle quad, radio stack, lighting, etc.) would fix all of these inaccessibility problems. The lack of a 2D panel with closeup breakouts of critical controls is, in my opinion, inexcusable given that it has been the "norm" in flight simming for several years. If this was freeware, I'd just "let it go" and be grateful that the airplane even flies at all- but it's payware, and $29 is toward the high end for a package containing 4 identical airplanes.I agree with a previous poster here that the "year 2000 model" included in this package should have a year-2000 panel, not just a more recent paint job. The idea that Piper supposedly made and sold an aircraft in or after 2000 with a 40-year-old Altimatic autopilot and clunky old Collins radios is simply absurd. The "late-model" Saratoga in this package should at least have a King stack, if not a full Garmin glass suite. All Carenado has done is "plump up" their package with 4 different paint jobs on the same old airplane without bothering to update the panels. Again, not a $29 package IMHO.On a positive note, both the interiors (including the panel in VC view) and the exteriors of these aircraft (there are 4 identical - except for paint and numbers - Saratogas in the Carenado package) are simply stunning, and I have found no handling or other anomalies. It flies somewhat "heavy and slow for an airplane of its size and horsepower," just like the Saratoga SP I flew to the Bahamas several times in years past. It's an excellent instrument platform for exactly that reason.To sum up, the Carenado PA-32R-301 is like the beautiful, curvy girl with perfect eyes and hair that you saw one day in Starbuck's: you were instantly in love... until she walked by your table and smiled... and you saw that most of her teeth were missing and the few that were left were all brownish green and rotten. Great looking but with fatal flaws. :(

[jfri 42]

No, it doesn't have a 2D panel. Also, my allegorical hat is off to the previous poster who mentioned that he was able to access the autopilot from the VC- I can't get that done. The only way I have been able to use the autopilot is via the key commands (Z toggles on/off, Ctrl-Z toggles Alt Hold, etc.) I have found NO way to capture a climb or descent gradient- when I mouse over the area of the AP, there is no tooltip telling me which switch/button/wheel does what, and the "hit boxes" for the vertical speed wheel are misplaced and unpredictable- one time, clicking in a certain place rolls the wheel up, the next time clicking in that exact same place rolls it down or has no effect at all. Very erratic, and without a tooltip to give you a clue, unusable. All my climbs and descents therefore have to be hand-flown.Also, the fuel pump, strobe, landing light and pitot heat switches are situated low on the left "wall" of the cockpit just forward of the yoke and can be seen from a normal piloting position only at a very oblique angle. Worse, these switches can't be viewed "head on" without major and awkward scrolling and manipulating of both axes of your "eyepoint," they have tooltips that show up only occasionally and like the Altimatic VS wheel, they have erratic and misplaced "hit boxes" that seem to change each time you fly the airplane- on one occasion, the only way to turn on the strobes was to hover over the fuel pump switch (!!!) and click. Even worse, there is NO Nav light switch (that I can find) anywhere in the aircraft. I am going to have to assign a dedicated joystick control (or keypress) to Nav Lights in order to control them. In fact, even after several night flights, I can neither confirm nor deny that this airplane even HAS Nav lights- I have never seen them on.A 2D cockpit with "normal" breakout views (throttle quad, radio stack, lighting, etc.) would fix all of these inaccessibility problems. The lack of a 2D panel with closeup breakouts of critical controls is, in my opinion, inexcusable given that it has been the "norm" in flight simming for several years. If this was freeware, I'd just "let it go" and be grateful that the airplane even flies at all- but it's payware, and $29 is toward the high end for a package containing 4 identical airplanes.I agree with a previous poster here that the "year 2000 model" included in this package should have a year-2000 panel, not just a more recent paint job. The idea that Piper supposedly made and sold an aircraft in or after 2000 with a 40-year-old Altimatic autopilot and clunky old Collins radios is simply absurd. The "late-model" Saratoga in this package should at least have a King stack, if not a full Garmin glass suite. All Carenado has done is "plump up" their package with 4 different paint jobs on the same old airplane without bothering to update the panels. Again, not a $29 package IMHO.On a positive note, both the interiors (including the panel in VC view) and the exteriors of these aircraft (there are 4 identical - except for paint and numbers - Saratogas in the Carenado package) are simply stunning, and I have found no handling or other anomalies. It flies somewhat "heavy and slow for an airplane of its size and horsepower," just like the Saratoga SP I flew to the Bahamas several times in years past. It's an excellent instrument platform for exactly that reason.To sum up, the Carenado PA-32R-301 is like the beautiful, curvy girl with perfect eyes and hair that you saw one day in Starbuck's: you were instantly in love... until she walked by your table and smiled... and you saw that most of her teeth were missing and the few that were left were all brownish green and rotten. Great looking but with fatal flaws. :(

This makes me wonder if not the FSD version is a better choice

[Guest HoggyDog]

This makes me wonder if not the FSD version is a better choice

Couldn't say, the Carenado is the only Saratoga I've flown in FS... as well as the ONLY aircraft in my "hangar" without a 2D cockpit with breakouts of critical controls.From purely a looks standpoint though, I can't imagine that any model could be better looking than the Carenado, and it flies fine.

[jfri 42]

Couldn't say, the Carenado is the only Saratoga I've flown in FS... as well as the ONLY aircraft in my "hangar" without a 2D cockpit with breakouts of critical controls.From purely a looks standpoint though, I can't imagine that any model could be better looking than the Carenado, and it flies fine.

I don't see it from a purely looks standpoint especially not exteriour view.