The hateful attitude of forum members

[Guest Longyear]

Dear All,I have been attending the forums at AVSIM for over 6 years, initially under a different forum name, which I changed when I returned to the flight sim hobby, following a long illness. (Can't explain why I wanted to use a new forum identity after that experience, I just did).Having got years of valuable help, hopefully having made some contribution as a forum member, this is the week that I have decided to leave this forum permanently. Before I go any further, this is not one of those posts where someone announces they are leaving, deeming themselves important enough that people will in anyway be sad, or will beg them to stay. I know that virtually no-one knows me here, under this ID. There is a specific reason why I am saying whay I am saying;The attitude of some people on this forum is just awful. Surely, we come here in this hobby, as a community of diverse ages, nationalities, cultures and outlooks. Surely all can expect a basic level of respect? Apparantly not now.In the last week, I have been accused of being a user of pirated software (entirely wrongfully and without basis), my sexuality has been brought into innuendo-fed question, and I have been told (from people I know of old, from whom I would never expect to hear it), to "get a life".I am a 62 year old bloke and I have many faults, as we all do. Being a software pirate is not one of them. As I have said on sub-forums, I would not even know how or where to obtain pirated software. I have no interest in threatening the future development of the wonderful products that are developed for this hobby, and to be frank but to get to the point; I am lucky and can very comfortably afford any add-ons that I want to buy.I am open minded and have absolutely no issues with people of any sexuality, but as a married man with two children, I find questions being raised about my sexuality distasteful and inappropriate on a flight sim forum.On a lesser note to the above examples, I have seen hateful, disrespectful attitudes to posts. I placed a post with a view on a certain product; I'd never expect everyone to agree with me (on anything) and fully expected people to come back with comments like "I don't find that", "I disagree", or "it's not a problem for me"...... but instead I get "Get a life" and other disrespectful comments. Why is it necessary to convey your disagreement with someone's view by putting them down, insulting them and passing ill-regard for fellow simmers around this forum.This place should not be toothpaste sickly nice all the time - life's not like that - but people should be able to discuss views, even differing views, without insulting eachother.When I have challenged some of the people and comments referred to above, I have experienced the 'forum liberals' giving me a hard time for fighting back. I responded to the entirely irrelevent and incorrect accusation from Paul Smith, that I was using a pirated copy of PMDG's J41 with some understandable objection and passion. I was immediately castigated by Pieter, both publically on the forum, and in an equally patronizing and chastizing PM, for my tone.My tone would not have been raised if I had not been inappropriately and wrongly accused of piracy! But the flamer went free; I acknowledge this is a dramatic articulation but the offender got more sympathy and protection than the victim.As well as these Avsim forums, I'm also a daily attendee on a music production forum (my other hobby) and I have always told people that both of these fine forums don't tend to see the issues that many forums have problems with' flaming, trolling, hate, prejudice, etc. Now, sadly, I can only make that claim about the music production forum.Many of you may disagree with me and call me over-sensitive and again tell me to "get a life", but I know there are others on the forum who hold values of respect, dignity and fairness as valuable, and I encourage you to fight to regain the AVSIM forums from the hateful people who are currently spoiling it for the decent simmer.Mr D. Barchetta.

[Geofa 108]

Dear All,I have been attending the forums at AVSIM for over 6 years, initially under a different forum name, which I changed when I returned to the flight sim hobby, following a long illness. (Can't explain why I wanted to use a new forum identity after that experience, I just did).Having got years of valuable help, hopefully having made some contribution as a forum member, this is the week that I have decided to leave this forum permanently. Before I go any further, this is not one of those posts where someone announces they are leaving, deeming themselves important enough that people will in anyway be sad, or will beg them to stay. I know that virtually no-one knows me here, under this ID. There is a specific reason why I am saying whay I am saying;The attitude of some people on this forum is just awful. Surely, we come here in this hobby, as a community of diverse ages, nationalities, cultures and outlooks. Surely all can expect a basic level of respect? Apparantly not now.In the last week, I have been accused of being a user of pirated software (entirely wrongfully and without basis), my sexuality has been brought into innuendo-fed question, and I have been told (from people I know of old, from whom I would never expect to hear it), to "get a life".I am a 62 bloke and I have many faults, as we all do. Being a software pirate is not one of them. As I have said on sub-forums, I would not even know how or where to obtain pirated software. I have no interest in threatening the future development of the wonderful products that are developed for this hobby, and to be frank but to get to the point; I am luck and can very comfortably afford any add-ons that I want to buy.I am open minded and have absolutely no issues with people of any sexuality, but as a married man with two children, I find questions being raised about my sexuality distasteful and inappropriate on a flight sim forum.On a lesser note to the above examples, I have seen hateful, disrespectful attitudes to posts. I placed a post with a view on a certain product; I'd never expect everyone to agree with me (on anything) and fully expected people to come back with comments like "I don't find that", "I disagree", or "it's not a problem for me"...... but instead I get "Get a life" and other disrespectful comments. Why is it necessary to convey your disagreement with someone's view by putting them down, insulting them and passing ill-regard for fellow simmers around this forum.This place should not be toothpaste sickly nice all the time - life's not like that - but people should be able to discuss views, even differing views, without insulting eachother.When I have challenged some of the people and comments referred to above, I have experienced the 'forum liberals' giving me a hard time for fighting back. I responded to the entirely irrelevent and incorrect accusation from Paul Smith, that I was using a pirated copy of PMDG's J41 with some understandable objection and passion. I was immediately castigated by Pieter, both publically on the forum, and in an equally patronizing and chastizing PM, for my tone.My tone would not have been raised if I had not been inappropriately and wrongly accused of piracy! But the flamer went free; I acknowledge this is a dramatic articulation but the offender got more sympathy and protection than the victim.As well as these Avsim forums, I'm also a daily attendee on a music production forum (my other hobby) and I have always told people that both of these fine forums don't tend to see the issues that many forums have problems with' flaming, trolling, hate, prejudice, etc. Now, sadly, I can only make that claim about the music production forum.Many of you may disagree with me and call me over-sensitive and again tell me to "get a life", but I know there are others on the forum who hold values of respect, dignity and fairness as valuable, and I encourage you to fight to regain the AVSIM forums from the hateful people who are currently spoiling it for the decent simmer.Mr D. Barchetta.

Sadly I agree..We mods try our best to keep this a civil place, but sadly there seem to be a few who take pleasure in spoiling what should be fun, and as a volunteer group we can not be everywhere all the time.I hope you will reconsider your decision because if you leave-they win.I would also ask all -please hit the alert button and let the mods know when something innapropriate occurs. Again, we can not be everywhere all the time. The alert button sends a message to all mods-and makes it easier for us to access and handle these situations...

[Guest Longyear]

Thanks for the comments Geof, Sincerely, you and the other mods here do a fine effort to try and keep the forum on track and a decent place to enjoy the hobby. In the example I gave above about the 'piracy accusation', David Roch was there within minutes and warned the forum member concerned for the inappropriate comments made. It's just a shame that we need to rely on mods to address this type of behaviour.Kind regards,

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

Hi Longyear,I would also ask you to rethink your decision. This is a great community and I'm sure you would miss it if you decided to part company with us.Yes, there are morons out there but they're very much in the minority and won't last long thanks to our excellent forum staff. For the most part you're in a community of like-minded, pretty sensible people and your enjoyment of FS can be enhanced by being part of it.Will you give up FS? No, of course you won't. But if you're thinking of joining alternative forums bear in mind this one is probably the best. Others have civilised discussions but there are around half a dozen topics raised a day! I've answered people's problems on another well-known site and never heard back from them. That is pretty annoying I can tell you! That rarely happens here.So please rethink your decision. I've been around here for years and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times people have riled me. The best advice I can give you under those circumstances is just not to reply. You're under no obligation to! :(

[David Roch 1,975]

Dear Mr Barchetta,As Geof said, if you leave they win.We do our best to clean the place from a very small bunch of provacative and rude people.I am insulted very frequently for being Israeli or Jew... You see, the level can be very low sometimes!But thanks to our small team we can say that overall Avsim is a plaisant place and we'd love to see you staying with us.Best regards,

[mgh 89]

Having checked your posts over the last week, all I can find is the comment that "you should get a life" in a thread you started by complaining about the phraseology of FS Passengers which found distasteful.Despite your anouncement that you are leaving (Yesterday 10:10pm) you have still continued to post.EDITI also realise that you are prepared to call others fascists.

RC4 all the way !I would just add that I believe the original poster raised some valid issues he'd had and has been thoroughly bashed by some forum fascists on here....

Make a sentence from the words black, calling, kettle, pot, the

[rightseater 0]

Having checked your posts over the last week, all I can find is the comment that "you should get a life" in a thread you started by complaining about the phraseology of FS Passengers which found distasteful.Despite your anouncement that you are leaving (Yesterday 10:10pm) you have still continued to post.

Some posts/threads get hidden or deleted where only admin can see them. That's something many fail to realize when they complain about a moderator being too firm. They don't understand that what you see is not always the whole story.

[mgh 89]

Some posts/threads get hidden or deleted where only admin can see them. That's something many fail to realize when they complain about a moderator being too firm. They don't understand that what you see is not always the whole story.

True. My edit to my post crossed your post. But the OP sems happy to call people he disagrees with fascists!

[n4gix 4,947]

True. My edit to my post crossed your post. But the OP sems happy to call people he disagrees with fascists!

Please Gerry. Look into a mirror. Examine your own conduct. MYOB.

[mgh 89]

Please Gerry. Look into a mirror. Examine your own conduct. MYOB.

Please provide evidence that I've called anyone a facist.

[n4gix 4,947]

Please provide evidence that I've called anyone a facist.

Don't be so literal. You know full well what I'm talking about. I know that I'm all too often perceived as a curmudgeon, but at least I'm willing to recognize it, and make honest efforts be less "crusty and ill-tempered..." :( Unfortunately I can't do a darn thing about the "old" part of being a curmudgeon... :(

[mgh 89]

Don't be so literal. You know full well what I'm talking about. I know that I'm all too often perceived as a curmudgeon, but at least I'm willing to recognize it, and make honest efforts be less "crusty and ill-tempered..." :( Unfortunately I can't do a darn thing about the "old" part of being a curmudgeon... :(

I have a thing about the idle use of fascist as an insult. Fascists murdered jews, slavs, gypsies, etc etc by the million - they thought they were less than human and that the world would be a better place without them.I have an elderly relative who was a forced worker in a ermany aircraft factory in occupied Europe - forced not slave otherwise I doubt she'd have survived. Even so, the conditions of emplyment meant that not turning up to work was tantamount to sabotaging the German war effort and resulted in being sent to a camp to learn the error of your ways.I supect I am even older than you - being born just before WW2. In the Uk, there's aphrase Grumpy Old Man (GOM). One of the pleasures of growing old is to be grumpy.

[Geofa 108]

I have a thing about the idle use of fascist as an insult. Fascists murdered jews, slavs, gypsies, etc etc by the million - they thought they were less than human and that the world would be a better place without them.I have an elderly relative who was a forced worker in a ermany aircraft factory in occupied Europe - forced not slave otherwise I doubt she'd have survived. Even so, the conditions of emplyment meant that not turning up to work was tantamount to sabotaging the German war effort and resulted in being sent to a camp to learn the error of your ways.I supect I am even older than you - being born just before WW2. In the Uk, there's aphrase Grumpy Old Man (GOM). One of the pleasures of growing old is to be grumpy.

Well at 52 I am not grumpy yet-until I visit the forums as of late. It seems there are more posts of simmers picking fights with each other than simming on all the fourms. This is making me grumpy before my time... :( Can we please all get back to simming?!

[n4gix 4,947]

Can we please all get back to simming?!

I'll hoist up an ale for that! :(

[jrhoads 6]

Well at 52 I am not grumpy yet-until I visit the forums as of late. It seems there are more posts of simmers picking fights with each other than simming on all the fourms. This is making me grumpy before my time... :( Can we please all get back to simming?!

I agree. It seems that more than ever there are people here that wait with baited breath to nail a new product, flame developers despite not having a clue what it takes to develop quality products and what the return is and people just waiting to pick a fight. I don't say much around here unless I feel I have too, but personally I have about had it coming here just to see this crap run its course. Like a friend of mine said, its like the Jerry Springer show only in forum format. Unless it changes I will have a hard time staying around here. It seems that it is no longer a community.Despite that... thank you Geofa, David and other mods. I am sure it is a tuff and thankless job.Jim Rhoads