Tool for realistic supersonic behaviour at all altitudes?

[Guest wiwa]

Hello (also posted at the 'add on developers' forum),I like flying MSFS 2004 and fsx with the military add ons. But it seems those are the hardest to model realistic. MSFS, after all those years, still isn't ment to fly with military aircraft. One very obvious thing is that a lot of them are to powerfull. They accellerate way to fast and the thing that bothers me the most is their capability to fly max speed (mach 2) at sea level! I've even read reviews that state it is fun to fly trough valley's at mach 2! Well, it might be fun but incredible unrealistic! A lot of the fastest fighters in real life can't fly faster then mach 1.2 at sea level. It is above 35000 ft that they can fly mach 2+.So to fly such planes realistic in MSFS you have to fly with cutback throttle. An incredible immersion killer for me. I think it has something to do with the badly moddeled supersonic region in FS. Because the planes slides through the sound barrier and keeps accellerating untill...? Only the VRS F 18 E/F Superbug has done this brilliant. So it is possible (there goes the 'due to FS limitation' excuse)! All the others, even those who claim 'highly detailed flightmodel' have these unrealistic behaviour. And that's a shame because there are some nice planes out there (Cloud 9 f104/f4, captain sim, Alpha sim...) but suffer from this unrealistic aspect. Maybe it has to do with eye candy or with the fact that the majority of MSFS fans fly subsonic, civilian planes. Although the supersonic Concorde suffers from the same thing. But I couldn't believe the fact that something like that, so unrealistic, so obvious, has been neglected. I almost never see any topic concerning this unrealistic feature. Am I the only one?! That can't be. Maybe all the others are kept away because of this? Or the majority are used to this feature and accept this as a standard or worse.. realistic?Now my question? Is there any tool that can fix this? A tool that works for all existing planes. A tool that makes fly your plane mach 1.2 at 0 ft and fly mach 2 at 35000 ft. Maybe a tool where you can insert the values for max speed at sea level and max speed at 35000 ft. Then it keeps your plane within these limits. To make it easy, just a linear calculator. So when you put in the following values: Mach 1.2 at sea level (0 ft), Mach 2 at 35000 ft. It automatic calculates a speed of mach 1.6 at 17500 ft. If it is to hard to do this within the true design of the model (drag/engine/power), maybe it can be done with an automatic throttle feature. The throttle cuts back automatic (or the engine power) when the max attainable speed at the specific height is reached. Ofcourse not as realistic but an option that can work to make the speed ranges realistic.Besides this I wonder if something could be done at the spool up times of the engines. Some engines of some military fighters for MSFS spool up together with throttle movement (0,003 seconds!). In real life, engines take 2 to 13+ seconds to go from idle to full power. Maybe something to do about that?I wonder if there are any clever minds that bother to make something for this. Would take the military or the supersonic aspect of MSFS to a new level!Greetings,Wiwa

[Guest jshyluk]

It's just one aircraft, and it's not a tool for making adjustments to FSX, but you may want to check out the SR-71 Blackhawk from AlphaSim. This aircraft flies by the numbers, even at Mach. I wrote the AVSIM Review, and I ended up reading the SR-71 Flight Manual to try to get a handle on it. You'll never get this Habu doing mach 2 down a canyon unless you've unstarted at 80,000 and flat spun going straight to Hades. http://www.avsim.com/pages/0708/AlphaSim3/SR71.htmJeff ShylukSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

The Aerosoft F-16 isn't too bad either as far as getting up to those speeds at low altitudes. Although having never flown an F-16 in real life I do wonder how I seem to be able to maintain around 200 tp 250 kts in level flight with the throttle closed. It seems like in some instances it wants to go faster than its realife counter part with not much power being applies, but I can get it to go faster than around 600 kts at sea level, and even then it starts to shake a lot.

[Guest wiwa]

Hi thanks for the reply's!Actually I hope I inspired someone to design such a tool... hmmm wait and see.And I've read the review about the SR 71. Nice! Altough not my favourite plane, I sure appreciate the tip! I might get it someday! If there are other tips about good modeled (flight model) military planes, they're welcome! But I'dd like a way of adapting my favourite planes. That's why such a tool would be great.However, don't get me started about the Aerosoft F16. I bought it, flew it around for some testrides, never touched it again. Among the things that botherd me was: A sustained 9 G turn with mil power, a max speed of 2...+ mach at sea level, a plane that could not be slowed down, engine spool times instantaneous with throttle movement and rather limited functionality. To bad, I was looking forward to that. I could not believe that the actual flight modeling (besides its looks) was modeled that way. I mean, it is a FLIGHT simulation! But somehow it is not a priority for many, including many designers of different planes. But it must be me, because I don't hear to many complaints. So my appologies for all those involved. I must admit, I flew/fly Falcon 4 AF. But I still expect good flight modelling. Maybe not as detailed as that, but reasonable, fair, with some degree of realism. I do want to get the impression of flying. Tips are welcome, and if someone know such a tool or knows how to make that. Let me know :( !Wiwa

[Guest napamule]

Wiwa,You no doubt read my reply in the FS9 forum you posted on this same topic or question. The topic is 'I wish' and the question is 'can it be done?'. Right? Right. Well MS would LOVE to be able to say they posses the what with all to make the aircraft fly as 'Real As It Gets'. But they can't or won't (ie: Aces). They are 'satisfied' with putting out a product best enjoyed by 'Kiddies' (ie: zoom zoom) and not at all intended to be appreciated by 'real' pilots.There are a lot of things that can be fixed regarding performance. Some models are worse than others. There are some MODELERS out there (KBT, Hama, Fitzgerald, etc) that DO 'understand' FDEs. Most don't, and could care less. The people ('Gurus') that could fix things are not wanted, or appreciated, by these modelers ('Go Away!' is what we get). So, I DO UNDERSTAND where you are coming from, as I do 24/7 mods to FDEs for everything out there (freeware) and have been doing Edits since FS98. Could I upload 'fixes' for those 'rude and crude' models? Sure. Except there are so many pirates and thiefs out there that it's just not in MY best interest to do so. They steal the FDES and then apply the stolen FDEs to their 'payware' models. BUNK! So (for me at least) now you know the REASON nobody is putting out FDEs for those messed up models. It takes too much work (weeks/months/years) and then they steal and use without EVEN giving you credit? BUNK on that noise. Hasta la vista, Baby.Chuck BNapamule

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

Hi thanks for the reply's!Actually I hope I inspired someone to design such a tool... hmmm wait and see.And I've read the review about the SR 71. Nice! Altough not my favourite plane, I sure appreciate the tip! I might get it someday! If there are other tips about good modeled (flight model) military planes, they're welcome! But I'dd like a way of adapting my favourite planes. That's why such a tool would be great.However, don't get me started about the Aerosoft F16. I bought it, flew it around for some testrides, never touched it again. Among the things that botherd me was: A sustained 9 G turn with mil power, a max speed of 2...+ mach at sea level, a plane that could not be slowed down, engine spool times instantaneous with throttle movement and rather limited functionality. To bad, I was looking forward to that. I could not believe that the actual flight modeling (besides its looks) was modeled that way. I mean, it is a FLIGHT simulation! But somehow it is not a priority for many, including many designers of different planes. But it must be me, because I don't hear to many complaints. So my appologies for all those involved. I must admit, I flew/fly Falcon 4 AF. But I still expect good flight modelling. Maybe not as detailed as that, but reasonable, fair, with some degree of realism. I do want to get the impression of flying. Tips are welcome, and if someone know such a tool or knows how to make that. Let me know :( !Wiwa

Wiwa, did you run all the updates on the Aerosoft F-16? There are about 3 or 4 updates now and I remember that one of them fixed some of the performance/speed issues. Not that I am a fan of Aerosoft, I actually haven't had very many good experiences with their products or support, but the F-16 seems to be working well on my system as far as the overspeeds. However, the place still does seem very fast even on a closed throttle.

[Guest wiwa]

Hi cmpbellsjc,I did ran a couple of updates. But those where in January 2009. So I might have missed a few by now. So you're saying that now the F16(clean) flies M 1.2 at sea level and M 2.2 at 3500ft?But the way it was brought out even after various updates has left me without much hope. So many aspects were unsatisfying and unrealistic for me. Like the engine spool times, the accelleration itself, the impossible slowdown, turnrates, sustainable high G turns with low power settings...etc. All things that makes FLYING the F-16 so unreal. No satisfaction to get from there. I told you before, don't get me started about the Aerosoft F16. Unbelievable that sometimes it seems that FLIGHT modeling are kept for last or even don't get much attention at all. For now I will leave it like that, with only one hour in my logbook on the F-16. As I'm flying in FS2004 lately (a lot with the VRS F 18 E/F Superbug, which is in a completely other league, believe me!), I might give it another try when I return to FSX. We'll see.Wiwa