PART 2: FSD! Im over add-ons with anti-piracy built in.

[MartijnPleines 0]

I know-I have a new motherboard and I've been flashing new BIOS revisions every few weeks for some time now-without having to worry about my FSD planes.Although this thread started out with FSD in the subject line, I was in fact referring to licensing schemes in general, and I can think of at least one company that, according to their responses in their own forum, does take BIOS into account, apparently. So far, I have not bought from them-but there are other reasons for that as well-which is why I decided not to mention that particular product after all.Best,Martijn

[Guest freequest]

Tim,>As far as not needing to worry about issuing new keys, etc.,>there is really no way to avoid that. People don't always>save license, key data. So when they reformat, have hard>drive crashes, etc., they are out of luck without a>replacement.Very true Tim i used to run a BBS (Freedom BBS) so i got into the habit of backing everything. I also well this may seam a bit of a overkill i also encrypt my paid for software on the backup CD's i dont want anyone useing stuff they didnt pay for. (actually its overkill but i like encrypting stuff) :)>Want a real life example? This past week alone we generated>78 Flight 1 wrapper replacement keys, and processed 62 "lost>license ID" requests. That's just last week. >:-eekHeck thats a lot :)O BTW Tim you dont look at IP's with your new software do you as as you know in Australia we dont have static IP's??

[Tabs 2,790]

>And with the>ENTIRELY LEGITIMATE SafeDisc protection system Microsoft>employ on the retail FS2004 CD media, I'll need buy three>copies of that as well and won't even blink. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you only need to do that if you want to run it simultaneously on more than one system? Can't you just take the play disc to whatever system you're on and have it work?Btw, you weren't a tester for FS2004??? I find it hard to believe MS would overlook one of the best airfile creators out there for the testing phase of the product...Ryan

[Guest freequest]

BTW im retracting my previous statement in the old thread it was a bit impulsive...Sorry FSD your intitled to protect your software my only concern was ease of re-installation and privacy but reading here its not a major problem for me anymore...Sorry for being so nieve* about this

[Guest TimD]

Christian,So you are saying that if someone steals your car, it would not have actually been dishonest because he would have actually not paid for it to begin with?It goes without saying that nobody can ever calculate the exact amount of revenue lost due to copyright infringement. But in what way does that excuse the piracy? I'm sorry but I'm having a problem following your logic here. Isn't theft dishonest, regardless of whether you intended to pay for the stolen property or not?http://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

[Guest Ken_Salter]

And now I will lock this thread, since it is also reaching a rather large size.http://saltydogfly2.avsim.net/images/avsim_sig.jpg

[kjackson 0]

Bob you have hit the nail on the head. Things do change and we as paying customers need to know that our investment in this hobby is protected from such practices.The fact that issues like this are receiving such public attention shows that there is a need to re-think the process. It's funny that on the eve of FS2004's release we are having such a discussion. To be honest how many users, customers, developers, or others have kept the CD in the drive when using FS2000. Anyone can cheat. What we need is a user friendly method to decrease the impact of piracy. The customer should not have to suffer unduly or have their systems held hostage in order to protect companies from theft. I can honestly say that I have not pirated or promoted piracy on my PC. We do have a voice and companies will listen.Regards,

[Guest Steve Small]

CD's get damaged too easily ... and as you cannot make a legitimate software backup which under law you are supposed to be able to do, what else can you do ? As to beta testing, it wasn't that I was overlooked, I was excluded : there's a difference :-) Best,.....Steve SmallCanberra, Australiahttp://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

[Guest christian]

I just want to add a few thoughts that may be worth considering:Here, at Melbourne Uni we still run Windows 2000 and Office 2000. Guess why. Noone here wants to new 'activation functionality'. And our uni is quite a big organisation, really. I would think that there are many other companies / organisations that have a problem with it. Sales for WinXP look good, but once you take into account that every new system has winXP on it, it's no big surprise. I recently saw some numbers showing that the number of systems still running win2000 is alarmingly high.Having started gaming in the 80s, I've really gone through a whole lot of protection scemes. Code wheels (they were a real pain), copy protected disks, and asking for a keyword from the manual, are the ones I can remember. Code wheels and manual keywords would still work today, but noone is using them anymore. Why? They are a pain in the *** for the user, and they proved to don't work (all one needed to do is to also copy the code wheel and the manual really). Then the code wheels came in hard to copy coulours, but they really were such a pain that they thankfully vanished...Now we still have keys and CD detection at work. They still are a bit of a pain, but not as much as some of the older copy protection schemes. Still, I hate shuffling through my piles of CDs (legally owned I have to add), and most people download a CD crack to circumvent the annoyance. One has to bear in mind that CD cracks are illeal though, since they remove a copy protection, so even legitimate owners aren't legally allowed to use them. Anyways, the point is that even keys and CD detections don't really work, because all you need is to write down the key, or get a no-CD crack, if you want to run an pirated copy. And I noticed a recent trend of some companies stopping using themDongles can also be annoying as hell. We run ArcGIS here on a network, and whenever the network is down, or someone switches the server with the dongle off accidentially (which happens from time to time), you can't run it. Plus, I would bet (although I don't know), you can probably download 'fixes/cracks' for that sort of thing as well.All in all, the only thing copy protection does is annoy the hell out of legitimate users. I bet there is not one piece of software that can't be run illegally. So, if you want to run a pirated copy, chances are you will be able to.How to fix the problem? I think it's probably similar to the drug trade problem in some ways. Organised piracy you have to battle with law enforcement troups. To prevent casual piracy (say the 'common man' pirate), you have to educate people and build up a moral code. As many people have expressed in this forum, they won't use pirated copies, similarily not everyone will take drugs if given the opportunity nor steal something in a shop. This is because we all have a concience in the end, so building up that concience in a society is I think the only effective way to battle piracy. Either that, or some vicious Big Brother scheme...Another way, is to promote dobbing (although I'm actually not really a 'dobber' myself, unless I think something really bad is happening). I'm selling some FS scenery myself, and I have to say that I'm not worried about illegal copies. I trust people to pay me money if they have it and are happy with what I created. If someone uses a pirated version, they probably aren't prepared to pay me in the first place (for whatever reason). On the other hand, if someone would sell my freeware scenery or pirated copies of my payware scenery, I have a problem. But there I count on other people dobbing that person. In that case the community here is asked to contribute and I'm sure that many people would be willing to help there (I had people dobbing someone to me, but it luckily showed that he wasn't doing anything wrong).Cheers, Christian

[Joe L 62]

Hi Tim,I believe this started with a reference to FSD - but I feel it has grown past any individual developers by all means. Look at the "Democratic Petition" thread in the PMDG forum - it is almost as 'popular' as the any other topic having to do with their teething pains. I think continued communication will help, hopefully everyone can view it as a team effort. But there will be fear of anything that "may be taken away" on the part of end user. This thread is an example of everyone kinda airing out their feelings from all sides. Maybe this is needed more often - along with some additional "quantification" from the developers to let the impact of theft set in.I know for instance the next time I have to re-install UT I'll need to call for help from F1. I downloaded numerous times, went through registration and reinstall only to find my download corrupted just enough to prevent final unpacking - but not stop the registration process. I don't look forward to that, but I don't fear it either. They referred me away from DAP over to GetRight which solved the issue, and hopefully they will remember those threads.OK though, enough seriousness for today. Time for some humor (please be sure you take in the spirit its meant!). :-hahI will officially boycott FSD from this point forward - from now until they release the Porter (that is unless the Navajo comes first :-smile12 ). There I have voiced my opinion and exercised my rights as a consumer. Oh, by the way I have purchased the Commander, Cheyenne, Seneca and their respective GMAX upgrades and think they are great (sorry, Cub's not for me). :-hahJoe LorencPhiladelphia/Charlotte Hub Manager, Carolina Operations, VN7 Networkhttp://www.vn7network.com/

[Guest TimD]

That's quite allright Ben. No hard feelings.Reinstallation, and further installation into FS 2004 is absolutely not a problem. In most cases you will not even need to go through the license validation process again. If you have experienced hardware problems/upgrades, or lost your license information, we will always help you out.http://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

[Guest BrianC]

The dongles we use to secure cell phone programming and configuration software at my company cost us $15 each. I imagine we found some on the inexpensive side of the market.

http://brianc.vip.warped.com/kpwk_sig.gif

[Guest Id Rather Be Flying]

"To answer your question, We(PSS) know that there is signifcant piracy of the PSS products. As for being on the side of the developer, I am one, so of course I am. But that aside I still feel if you dislike something in the product the customer can be a positive source of ideas. Out there somewhere is a genius with a idea that will help address the problem, I just wish I knew who he or she is."I am HE and I CAN help with ideas. I am a programmer/hobbyist for 25 years with varied experience in different languages including c, c++, vb, reverse engineering, & web technologies. I may not be the GREATEST programmer in the world since I never was and I don't do it for a living anymore but I can get by for the most part.MOST companies MAIN downside is using a COMMERCIALLY available solution which caters to everyone and is not unique in methodologies or libraries which can EASILY be modified to unlock ANYONE who uses their software. As an example, some companies known are using Protection Plus from Concept Software as well as Safedisc from Macrovision.What I have been contemplating is a situation as this. I believe I have a method using preexisting ideas and combining several into an unobtrusive painless solution for EVERYONE. I will be compiling a test in the future.I would be willing to work with & discuss a sequenced solution for those developers interested. You can leave me a private message here and I will take it from there with you.

[Guest vas_yan]

I also believe that that not all pirated copies are lost sales and that illegal copies might help promote a company's products. This is a valid argument. Pirating is immoral but commercial developpers' job is to make a profit, not to educate the masses and enforce their ethics upon them...Kind regards,

[Guest freequest]

Thanks Tim,Well i have had no problems so far the seneca V works fine and i back everything up on CD after first converting it to UUE then PGP 1024 bit encrypting it (i dont want anyone getting stuff i payed for).As users i think we should be more active in stamping out piracy as well... something like a neaboughood watch where if you find a pirated payware product you can just go to a site to let payware authors know about it..anyway my 2c (and not impulsive mind you)