PART 2: FSD! Im over add-ons with anti-piracy built in.

[1mikel151 71]

"How the hell did "How the hell . . ." get through your nastywords filter?Damn if I know!Wilson"LOL :-lol :-lol :-lolRegards, Michaelhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VAwww.calvirair.comCougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviationwww.cgrmtnhelos.com

[Wilson 2]

Boshar:You are much to intelligent and logical to be posting here.Please go find somewhere else to play (-: WilsonP.S. THE best darn (can I say that?) to this mess that I have read.

[Guest TimD]

Rob,"I Sympathise with FSD - and I thought their correspondence, which was private initially, was courteous and even-mannered."Thank you. I appreciate your saying that."We are pretty certain that up to 30% of our sorely needed revenue is swallowed up by one user sending our software to another non customer. How do we know? - well, various ways, but amongst other things, incredibly, some non purchasers have even had the gall to write to us demanding support even though they weren't on our database of bone fide purchasers. Now that takes some cheek!"Yes, this happens to us as well. Something else huh? 30% is about what we figure we were loosing as well. One way to tell is that we would have more than 30% additional unique downloads of a service release, compared to the number of planes we actually sold. You don't have to be Einstein to figure out what is going on. Some obviously don't appreciate how frustrating this is.http://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

[Guest A321]

Well with regards, to "Ponying out new Ideas" (if you knew what pony ment in English Slang (UK) ) you would laugh :), The current Protection is PONY!!Ok how about this:Dump the IP thing as that's nonsense, assuming they are running the Protection off a databse. Ok Lets get the scenario, Ive played with my system, and now I want to install my FSD Product, but Ive done it 1 to many times. I Log on to FSD's website and click on request, another key upgrade. I then enter, MY CVC Number OR creditcard number (dump PayPal or accomodate that to) and Email address, as well as My Orignal Lincense Key.What Happens next:Well, we then have a nice little query run on the Databas that does this.==============================================================SELECT customerCVC, customerCardNumber, customerEmail, customerKey FROM Customers WHERE customerKey = "customerCardNumber" AND "customerEmail" IF ExistsSET INSTALLTIME = 0 ELSERETURN 0 (== Get lost you pirating feind....:)==============================================================Ok syntax not correct :), but you get the gist, (part of my daily development TSQL)No more emails, no more begging, and no more "Your A Theif", Now if entering your CardNumber, and CVC is not enough, FSD might as well come round my house and look themself.Now you Shout, but this does Not stop sharing!! Well, you can limit it to one install, and then users must request a new key.. No hassel, just log on and fill in your details. You can even write query's that can check IP'S if you like, and say decline if it is differnt more than 3 times.This is a very good and hassel free way IMHO.Jason

[Wilson 2]

Dave,Wow, guy, chill out! I bet you are supporting the manufacturer of preparation H these days.Of course, thieves are nobody's friend (except other thieves). But, the argument is "fallacious"? I don't think so.Seems to me, we have the solution --Give me shareware. Let me try it. If it sucks, I won't buy it!If it works, without any quirks, I'll pay you -- forget about the jerks!Wilson

[boshar 6]

>This argument is fallacious. Lost sale or not the pirate is>stealing. >>Someone creates something with their resources and decides you>have to pay to use it. That is their right because it was>their resources that created it. >>The thief say's, "No I don't have to pay," and uses it anyway.>Doesn't matter what the thief's intentions are or situtation>is. Doesn't matter if the thief would have never bought it in>the first place. A thief undermines the entire system. And the>legitimate customer pays for his free ride.I'm not siding with the pirates. You are probably right that I should have used the THEFT word in all the cases. I'm just trying to point out that:Pirated copy IS NOT (always) paying customer gone badNo pirated copies (and no demo) IS Less exposure to new customersI don't claim I have the numbers on this but these are general rules in the software buissnes.Just a little anecdote to illustrate my point: In the good old DOS age WP5.1 had 90% of the WordProcessing market in the Netherlands. This was mostly due to students using pirated copies to write their homework. Those students eventualy got a decent job and asked for the only product they knew how to work with WP 5.1. WP never did anything to stop these pirates they just made sure the large companies payed for their licenses. (the poor students didn't have the money anyway)Again I like to state. I paid for all my add-ons and FS200x copies.

[Guest TimD]

Greg,We do understand that. But likewise, you need to also walk a mile in our shoes. This is not some get rich on the side scheme, or revenue enhancement program to pay for a yacht. FSD consists of four people. Three of us are unemployed. FSD is our only means of income. In my case, the administrative and programming duties preclude taking an outside job. Between the product development time and administrative duties I spend well over 40 hours a week on behalf of FSD. So for the process to continue, my taking outside employment is out of the question.Also consider that this is really a very small hobby. Not the multi-million unit sales that Microsoft and other retail development houses enjoy. Ask any FS developer what kind of numbers are involved here. The people that develop for FS do this because of love of hobby, not love of money. Now considering this, tell me how you expect us to ignore 30%+ theft of software sales (A.K.A. revenue)? Could you accept a loss of this income? We would very much like to find a solution which was not as expensive as what we are doing, and is less time consuming. But as a programmer I can tell you that there is no utopia. You can't get half pregnant. You either have to manage and restrict the installation and use of the software, or simply accept the losses. So I would pose this question to you again...could you afford losses like that?The piracy situation is just as many have opined here. It is casual file trading that comprises almost all of it. Not the work of "professionals". The situation was bad a few years ago, but nothing like it is now. For several years we operated on the trust principle, and we lost our shirt. So for us, and most other developers, it has become a choice between license management, or just giving up FS development and doing something else. I think you will find that all PC software is headed in that direction, and could possibly become more restrictive. Remember when there were no restrictions on installing Windows?So believe me when I tell you that we would love to be presented with a viable alternative, that does not have our accepting 30% losses as part of the bargain. But as Bob Kirkland pointed out in this thread, those who are objecting are not offering anything constructive with respect to alternatives.http://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

[Guest Bigshot]

TimD;________________________________________________________________30% is about what we figure we were loosing as well. One way to tell is that we would have more than 30% additional unique downloads of a service release, compared to the number of planes we actually sold. You don't have to be Einstein to figure out what is going on. Some obviously don't appreciate how frustrating this is._________________________________________________________________You can't use that as a guideline. Just as an example, about two months ago, I downloaded the Flight1 421C and put it in my downloads folder. I have not installed it yet. One reason is that I'm waiting for FS2k4. Another reason is that I kinda forgot about it. Your statement reminded me it's still in my folder. So there's a download from that site and no sale. Not yet anyway! That's just a habit of mine. I see something I think I'll like and I'll download it and put it away. So don't judge lost sales by the number of downloads vs sales. I'm sure there's lots of us that do that. Especially with payware. I like to think about it for a little while.

[Guest bigun]

As I stated in my post on the first thread. I had the same problem with FSD. New machine, several problems, had to reload the payware. FSD (Steve Small and I communicated several times via e-mail. ALL of my e-mails were courteous and without a hint of being impolite or demanding. (I would be happy to post ALL e-mails back and forth for all of you to decide if you like. I was told that I was trying to install the software to several machines, had several IP addresses etc. I have the software on ONE machine, the new Dell XPS. Took it off the old one because I gave it to my Grandaughter. I upgraded fom XP Home to XP Pro, re-install, hard drive crash, re-install, had another re-install but couldn't for the life of me figure out why. I think maybe today I found out. I use Partition Magic and apparently when you re-size partitions, guess what, re-install. I was told that I am taking up too much of their time. I even offered to pay for another license if my screwing around cost them too much time.Was told my license was revoked and my money refunded. I didn't want a refund, I wanted the plane I paid for. I believe FSD has some of the best payware out there. Thats why I have purchased the Seneca, Cheyenne and Commander. I did indeed get the impression that they (FSD) believed I was stealing or distributing the software. I don't know about IP addresses or machine binding or any of that stuff. I do know that I was not attempting to do anything but run the software that I paid for on one machine and felt like I was being treated like a fool and a criminal when it was all said and done.George Stoddard

[Guest racartron]

That is the silliest analogy I've ever heard.Firstly, not very many car manufacturers go out of business -- they are bought by or merged with another company and customer service is continued.Secondly, there are masses of free lance mechanics and auto parts stores in the world to fix any car problems.----------------Software vendors (the bigger more reputable ones) offer as part of the purchase and support package the delivery of the necessary unlock bits in the event they cease to exist.As an IT manager, I've always insisted any vendor products I purchase have such a long term protection clause included or I won't do business with them. I can't bring products into my shop to assist in building software applications I'm going to sell and have the threat of it going away hanging over my head.Racartronit means something, but I just can't remember what

[Guest]

I did not mean my earlier post to be a plink shot at FSD. I am sorry if it got interpreted that way. I am a very contented customer of theirs. They gave me what I wanted, some fine flight sim add ons that have given me countless hours of entertainment. And I gave them what they wanted, my money. Their products and service impressed me so much I even threw in something for free, recommendations to my other flight simming friends.And that's the way the system is supposed to work. How about this for a "pony idea". Honesty. Let us all deal with each other honestly. Developers, be up front in your advertising. Tell the consumer exactly what they are buying. Tell the consumer what sort of piracy protection scheme you are using. Gather only the personal information you actually need to make the business transaction. Tell the consumer exactly what you are doing with the personal information you are gathering and live by it. Customers, be up front about what you are looking for and don't let wishful thinking lead you to see something there that isn't. Ask about the personal information you are surrendering. Find out what is being done with it. Ask, if you don't know, whether you will be able to reinstall without the developer's intervention. Then make the transaction if you think the exchange (money and information) is worth it to you. Once you have the software code on your machine, protect both the developer's and your interests. Don't share any codes, keys or other information that the developer says is priveledged. Giving your friend your codes and continiuing to use the product yourself, doesn't make you generous. It makes you a thief. If you need customer service, be honest and polite. There is absolutely no need to take anything personally. Remember, its a business transaction. I have never seen a single situation that was helped by someone getting abusive or colorful in their language use. I know everytime I have done so, the situation deteriorated rather than improved.Developers and users alike can help each other. The flight sim community is large in many ways, but small in many others. As a group we can police our own ranks, much like a small town, with many small businesses. We can protect each other. Take a Zero Tolerance attitude about piracy. Squash any idea that it is a legitimate way to operate whenever it comes up. If you see it going on then be courageous and intervene. Confront the pirate, tell the community or tell the developer. Do something about it. Don't let it go on with your knowledge. Friends don't let friends become thieves. And friends don't allow thieves to steal from other friends. My granfather used to say that honesty was the best policy. He went on to say it was not the easiest policy nor the most profitable, but it was the best.Dave Spurlock

[Guest Ken_Salter]

Please don't post any emails.http://saltydogfly2.avsim.net/images/avsim_sig.jpg

[Guest bigun]

OK I won't.Thanks,George

[michal 44]

> But not at the>sacrifice of customer's privacy. Privacy - wow !! - this is a very big word for something so obscure like some hexadecimal number that represents fingerprint of your PC. It doesn't tell anyone about your age, your drinking habits, your shopping or who do you sleep with. Frankly anytime you pay with a credit card you loose a lot more 'privacy'. If I were you I would build a log cabin in the wilderness of Colorado with no zip code, no road, no utilities (ala the Unabomber fellow) and then I would enjoy true PRIVACY. Michael J.

[Guest]

To answer your question, We(PSS) know that there is signifcant piracy of the PSS products. As for being on the side of the developer, I am one, so of course I am. But that aside I still feel if you dislike something in the product the customer can be a positive source of ideas. Out there somewhere is a genius with a idea that will help address the problem, I just wish I knew who he or she is. During the last year I have helped to shut down more than 50 sites offering pirated software and that is a drop in the bucket.One of the things the bothers me as it does Tim is the number of pirates who have the gall to justify there theft and then demand support. I just have a hard time accepting the argument, that piracy doesn't hurt anyone, that the pirate would not buy anyway etc. The arguments I have seen by only a small step would justify stealing a car from a dealer and driving it for a few weeks and then justifying the theft by saying "I just wanted to find out if this was something I wanted to buy."Theft is theft and when you steal from me you are taking food from my table and support from my family. Fortunately, I was raised and educated in a system that had a simple code.YOU WILL NOT LIE, STEAL, CHEAT OR TOLERATE THOSE WHO DO.I feel sorry for the quality of the person who doesn't believe this and try to practice it everyday. http://www.avsim.com/pages/robert/kirkland.jpg