I Sympathise with FSD - and I thought their correspondence, which was private initially, was courteous and even-mannered.We are pretty certain that up to 30% of our sorely needed revenue is swallowed up by one user sending our software to another non customer. How do we know? - well, various ways, but amongst other things, incredibly, some non purchasers have even had the gall to write to us demanding support even though they weren't on our database of bone fide purchasers. Now that takes some cheek!The smaller the developer, the harder piracy hits. I do not know the solution, and probably nor does anyone else. We work incredibly hard to keep our customers happy, and have many times erred on the side of the customer where problems have occured with installations etc. We have no choice but to trust that the average customer is honest, but live in hope that our trust in them is reciprocated.Best Regards,Rob Young - RealAir Simulations

Not this ex-customer :-) .

Dear all,what I miss in this thread so far is constructive criticism to help develop a machine binding protection that works for both sides,

Well it seems that this anti-piracy thing keeps coming up. So as always I want to throw my 2 cents in. What I believe is that piracy will always be around no matter what. Companies will always try to stop and will fail because no matter how good you think it is someone will find a way to crack it. Now I believe that companies should at least try to detour the casual hacker from stealing there software but not at the cost of the privacy of there customers. let's just say that you stop 10% of 30% you where talking about, well for that 10% that you stopped you just lost 15% in honest customers because of the intrusion and inconvenience you caused. I say this because I wanted the Cheyenne, 737-600 and the 727. Well these planes are all by companies that use the software you have to contact them when you change something or messed something up just to get the software running again. Now mind you I have almost every payware add on out there and I really believe in supporting the FS companies that way. I however will not tolerate this intrusion on my privacy and inconvenience. The best thing I can do is speak with my wallet and I have done that. I also have voiced my opinion on this many times in hopes that this increasing pattern of intrusion and inconvenience will stop!! I think the best way to stop piracy is to put out something that is of great quality, with great customer service, a non security intrusive security system and of reasonable cost. I think if you do these things people will want to buy your product and not steal it. Not to bash other developers but Dreamfleet, Flight1 and PSS will always get my money no matter what plane they come out with. Well I will step off the soapbox and tell you sorry for such a long post.Jason Dellarusso

Let's not forget that machine binding also prohibits overclocking...Why should add-on companies enjoy a better level of protection than other software houses? Sympathy for the developpers notwithstanding, I think the best advice is keep protection on a par with the rest of the software industry, try to put your best in your designs and don't quit your day jobs (no joke, genuine advice).BTW there is no such thing as keeping honest people, honest etc. Honest people don't need a leash...Regards,

I don't think it is up to the user to "pony up some suggestions", and it is within reason to voice dissatisfaction with a vendor or their protection scheme (assuming it is done in the correct manner of course). You seem to be solely on the side of the developers here with no leeway towards the frustration that your non-paying patrons are voicing. It is obvious that there is a lot of frustration all the way around. When people start talking with their wallets by not buying then a vendor may have to decide to "back off" or find a more "user friendly" scheme, or suffer a lack of sales. Doesn't seem that it has happened yet.I will compliment PSS to date - not just because their method is so user friendly, but also because they seem to gladly indicate a method for backing up one's purchase to avoid hassles in the first place. I'm curious as to whether or not they feel their "rate of abuse" is more or less than the norm?That being said . . .I actually don't have a problem with protection scheme to date, though I was quite nervous with my new system a month or two back. I did three total reinstalls of the system before getting things settled down. Not one re-install issue arose, however.My concern is how much of what I'm paying goes for the protection scheme, and what kind of hit does it give me in performance? Of those two code bloat affecting performance worries me the most. I'm yet to find a situation that made put my wallet back in my pocket.Joe LorencPhiladelphia/Charlotte Hub Manager, Carolina Operations, VN7 Networkhttp://www.vn7network.com/

>Exactly Bob. So, let the masses speak... How the hell do>commercial providers overcome the theft of their product? Lots>of #### and complaining about methods currently in use, but>very few if any suggestions on improvements or alternatives.>Come on folks; pony up with some suggestions rather than the>continuing plinking at FSD and others!What about a dongle (or something of that kind)? The customer can then use his software only on ONE PC at the same time. What

The way is see this discussion going its seems to be that according to the publishers every pirated copy equals a lost sale. I'm sorry but it doesn't work that way.Pirate #1 Out of moneyDoesn't have the money for the add on. Will use his (or his parents) internet connection to hunt down a pirated copy if such a copy is not available he wil not buy the addon. NO LOST SALE!Pirate #2 The interested simmer #1Sees the addon on a friends PC or on the internet and asks a copy. Comes home and flies it three times. After this he forgets about it. He used the copy to evaluate the product and he doesn't fit the customer profile. NO LOST SALE!Pirate #3 The interested simmer #3Sees the addon on a friends PC and asks a copy. Comes home and flies it three times. Likes what he see and flies some more. Becomes hooked and he may:a. Continue using the copy like the filty Pirate he is. NO SALE! THEFT!b. Continue using the copy doesn't have a creditcard anyway so he could never buy it. NO LOST SALE! THEFT!c. Continue using the copy but aware of it makers and the quality of their work he buys another addon from its makers HALF A SALE! STILL THEFT! (but we appear to have a new customer)d. Continue using the copy feeling he is stealing that way he eventualy buys the addon and maybe buys some new stuff too. A SALE (AND MAYBE MORE) What a nice new customer!Sure it feels awfull to see your work shared on the internet by people not paying for it but not all of them are realy customers.Pirated copies also provide something else. A demo period. I challenge al developers to make a demo version of their addon. Give customers 10 days to try without having to buy. Aproximatly 50% of my addons (I buy them all legaly) didn't last me longer than 10 days. Once my curiousity was satisfied I returned to my favourite addons. Sure all these addons where quality work but it just wasn't 100% my thing. Now in this case do you consider me a customer that has to pay? I used the product for 5 - 10 hours before I got bored (again not your fault just my nature). in other word I evaluated the product and decided not to use it but alas I had to buy it before I could test it. According to this little theory of mine make limited demos will lose you a considerable part of your sales. Am I right or am I right.PS Not going for a refund on those 50% I throw out within 10 days. I accepted that it is the way of things

Tom,Perhaps the answer is not some sophisticated, customer un-friendly, privacy-invasive, 99.9% GOTCHA! system.Other retail merchants deal with shoplifting, for example, on a daily basis. Some have discreet surveillance systems in place, some don't. But, when was the last time you were "spread eagle" just to check to see if MAYBE you had something that was not yours?Retail businesses expect that a certain percentage of professional shoplifters will be successful and allow for that in their pricing. Yes, you pay for it and I pay for it. And, I bet MicroSoft is one of those retailers using this method.It seems to me that the proper perspective should be to maximize customer service so as to maximize sales. In my business, and I bet in yours, we succeed because we go out of our way to make it easy for our clients, not by throwing up roadblocks.So, perhaps the way to solve this problem is to accept piracy as an integral part of the business, i.e., stealing of software IS going to occur. Accept it, add a buck or two to the price if you need to, or whatever soothes YOUR pain, but DON'T make buying from you a pain.P.S. FSD and I parted ways some time ago for totally different reasons, but I don't want this posting to appear to be anti-FSD. It is a suggetion that could apply to any of the vendors that all of us flight simmers patronize.Regards,Wilson

P.S.How the hell did "How the hell . . ." get through your nasty words filter?Damn if I know!Wilson

Uwe,Thank you for the kind words.With regards to our protections system:- use a dual boot configuration Not a problem- reinstallation of Windows Additional unlock may be necessary, and we are happy to provide them- reinstallation of FS Does not effect our system at all- BIOS updates Does not effect our system at allhttp://www.fsd-international.c Fteam/TD_forum_sig.gif

"Let's not forget that machine binding also prohibits overclocking..."This is completely untrue. The two have no relationship.http://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

>The way is see this discussion going its seems to be that according>to the publishers every pirated copy equals a lost sale. I'm sorry>but it doesn't work that way.This argument is fallacious. Lost sale or not the pirate is stealing. Someone creates something with their resources and decides you have to pay to use it. That is their right because it was their resources that created it. The thief say's, "No I don't have to pay," and uses it anyway. Doesn't matter what the thief's intentions are or situtation is. Doesn't matter if the thief would have never bought it in the first place. A thief undermines the entire system. And the legitimate customer pays for his free ride.A thief is no ones friend. What they do cannot be justified.As far as a demo period goes, if you think you need one to decided whether to buy or not, ask for one. Nicely. You might be surprised by the answer you get. Most businesses want the sale.Dave Spurlock

I find it really surprising that nobody mentioned the three magical letters: DRM! Digital Rights Management is the answer to your questions, and at the same time it's the answer I don't really like.Microsoft has a lot of experience in the DRM field. The Windows Media Rights Manager is a part of the Windows Media Technologies. MS has planned to incorporate DRM mechanisms into MS Office (don't know if they already done this in the current version?), and they could include it in FS as well.What would this mean? The first time you load a new plane, the DRM component would contact a clearing house server and ask if you have a valid license to use this plane. Depending on the licensing model a number of things could happen:1) Freeware: You would be granted an unlimited license to use the plane without restrictions2) Payware: You are prompted for your credit card information, or data from your profile is used. After you confirm the transaction, you receive you license and can use the plane without connection to the internet until you reinstall your system or transfer the license back to the clearing house in order to use it on another system.3) Try-before-buy: The first time you load up the plane the DRM component contacts the clearing house server and receives a "n time" license so you can fly the plane n times. Or the license could be limited to a certain time interval, say 14 days. After this period is over, you are asked if you want to purchase a permanent license.4) Pay-per-flight ...5) Pay-per-month ...6) etc.Especialls try-before-you-buy model is something most simmers - and companies, I guess - would love and is not possible with all current systems.What are the disadvantages?* Privacy concerns, we read a lot about them already, and I have them as well! * Cost - you have to pay the clearing house* Infrastructure does not exist yet* Low level technology (hardware) needed to implement a secure DRM system is problematic in relation to privacy as well (see Palladium)MS is planning to implement DRM facilities in several of their upcoming products, including as mentioned before their Office package, but most important the operating system, Windows.I was sceptical about DRM for a long time, but the more I learned about it, the more I liked it. There are, however, severe problems concerning privacy and freedom of speech that may not be neglected. I'm sorry I can't give you a better introduction to this topic, but it's 1 a.m., and it's been a while since I studied these technologies.Just my 2c (EUR),VOlker :]

OK, Tom... here's my solution.I wish very much to see piracy stopped (though reality tells me it's impossible to stop all theft). But not at the sacrifice of customer's privacy. That's no solution.I have no technical solutions for companies like FSD. They've forgotten more about computer programming than I'll ever learn in my lifetime. What's more important, though, is that I feel no inclination to create a solution for them. I'm simply a customer. I pays my money, I wants my purchase to work. And I won't accept a seller intruding in my life just so I can give them my money. Life doesn't work that way.My only viable suggestion to company's like FSD... I'll do all I can to protect their property (I have gone to great lengths to do just that for FSD in the past), but they need to find a solution that doesn't intrude on my privacy or tie me to one particular machine configuration (I'm a gamer... I upgrade too often :-) ).In the meantime, they should keep one very important point in mind: If I have to make a choice between protecting my privacy (and stopping this trend toward intrusion and inconvience to the customer) and purchasing simming products, I won't hesistate to put the privacy of myself and my family first. It's just that simple.And with that I bid them a heartfelt "Good luck",