There is, however, room to share product impressions and discuss pros and cons. That, after all, is one of the purposes of a having a flightsim discussion forum. Some individuals who both have a "commercial" status and a company signature seem very eager to put a stop to this, unless the views shared happen to be 100% favorable.

And your point of view is well taken. Everyone is allowed to share there opinion of a product, but sometimes there is a piling on effect that is unnecessary. I have never seen a need for a host of adjectives used to express discontent. A little RESPECT from both sides would go a long way. I tend to believe that developers are listening to those complaints and consider patches and updates, in part, from what they read here. In fact, I believe Ron or Ed made a comment to that regard when we discussed the Citation (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). But some members do need to rethink how they go about expressing themselves. I would think that Ron and Ed would be much more likely to respond to my complaint if I discussed the topic like a mature adult and not use senseless terminology to describe the fruits of there labor.

And your point of view is well taken. Everyone is allowed to share there opinion of a product, but sometimes there is a piling on effect that is unnecessary. I have never seen a need for a host of adjectives used to express discontent. A little RESPECT from both sides would go a long way. I tend to believe that developers are listening to those complaints and consider patches and updates, in part, from what they read here. In fact, I believe Ron or Ed made a comment to that regard when we discussed the Citation (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). But some members do need to rethink how they go about expressing themselves. I would think that Ron and Ed would be much more likely to respond to my complaint if I discussed the topic like a mature adult and not use senseless terminology to describe the fruits of there labor.

You are correct. Hotfix 1.82 is nearing completion for that product and we'll have an anouncement when ready.No one is required to like us or our products nor are they required to purchase. :(

As I pm'ed another developer today-it has never occured to me that the status "commercial" would be anything but a badge of respect. I have always had the highest regard for those who develop for the sim, and have always considered a privledge to count such developers as contributing members. I guess I am hopelessly naive...

What I see this boils down to is that people want to be treated a little more nicely all around. I don't see that as a big challenge personally. Isn't that naive, though, to expect the entire community to act a little more niceley? If the coloured tags make people think about segregation (which is depressing), then I suggest that people ought to try out for green tags or red tags, and see how that feels. Flight sim is flight sim, but as soon as you add a forum then you are also adding public relations. Not all of us are skilled in PR, nor do we all aspire to that. However if we can foster some mutual understanding, well, I am all for that. AVSIM is Tom Allensworth's project. AVSIM is not a public institution, although we have many members. AVSIM is a private company. People who frequent AVSIM should respect Tom's rules and what he has to say. I don't always agree with Tom, and I certainly have different ideas about how things can be run, but on the other hand, if I was running AVSIM, I would be on my own. I do not have Tom's ability to inspire people to commit to all these hours of volunteer labour, nor do I have his endless day-to-day initiative to see that everything all works.Jeff ShylukSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

Respect + Maturity = Freedom of speechThat goes for members, orange, green, blue, red... tags.For an almost 70.000 members forum, we can be proud to have very minor issues, an average of one member banned and no more than 3 topics closed a month.

Respect + Maturity = Freedom of speechThat goes for members, orange, green, blue, red... tags.For an almost 70.000 members forum, we can be proud to have very minor issues, an average of one member banned and no more than 3 topics closed a month.

So true David in the end we are all flight simmers that love this hobby and have a passion for aviation...I'm for one grateful to all volunteers over here :( Maybe also using the PM a bit more like we did in the old days lolCheers,Andre Folkers

Again, I personally suggested that users review the terms of use. Eaglesoft did not.See how easy it is to misunderstand a personal post if you wear a commercial member tag and a Company Signature?I personally said "seems to be in violation" not were in violation.It's really easy to determine those who have an agenda against commercial devs in general and Eaglesoft specifically.

By the way, the OP, and many others here seems to be in violation of the terms of use by not including both first and last names. A reread of the Terms of Use at the top of the forums may be in order.

Maybe you should have re-read the Terms of Use when you would have found out that those who use their User Names are not in violation of them before you posted.

Whom would that be?

No one. As I said I've never been involved with a developer. Maybe you'd care to withdraw your unsubstantiated allegation?

Maybe you should have re-read the Terms of Use when you would have found out that those who use their User Names are not in violation of them before you posted.No one. As I said I've never been involved with a developer.Maybe you'd care to withdraw your unsubstantiated allegation?

Why bother? You are a not the subject of this thread.The subject is about "non commercial members" not liking "commercial members".Why would we wish to take it OT and make it about MGH?Sorry, the fish are not biting today. :(

No one. As I said I've never been involved with a developer. Maybe you'd care to withdraw your unsubstantiated allegation?

He was asking who that was because you got his name wrong...

He was asking who that was because you got his name wrong...

The thread isn't about him. If I were addressing him I would have clearly stated so. :(

LOL guys...

QUOTE (mgh @ Dec 8 2009, 02:56 PM) Very well then, Ron Hamilton and Ed Hamilton who are connected with Eaglesoft suggest that those of us who use User Names only violate AVSIM's Terms of Use and want to hide who are and tend to have a hidden agenda.Your suspicions are baseless because I am not, and never have been a commercial developer, nor had any connection with one.WarpD:Whom would that be?

He was just wondering who Ed Hamilton was?He is Ed Wilson.

Ok guys.Why not using PMs (thanks Andr

I was starting to wonder if Ron and Ed were brothers. It's that whole "Ed Hamilton" thing that mgh might have overlooked. Anyway, I don't know what this thread is about anymore. I've asked for anyone to show me where AVSIM hasn't been fair, and I think we've covered that we are. I agree that some members let there ego or agenda do the talking for them, but nobody has a fair, viable solution. I stand by what I said earlier. Nobody has to be here, but we're grateful for those that are. I'm all ears for any suggestions on how to improve these forums - as far as moderating is concerned - but it doesn't take long before any idea proves to be unfair to the other side. Ron can easily identify those with an agenda? Good. When you see it, PM me. Go ahead and hit the report button, but PM me too. If I find someone with an agenda to bash a developer, or a developer with an agenda, they go the way of the evening newspaper - just remember it takes a bit more than an opinion, I like to see proof of an agenda.

Ok guys.Why not using PMs (thanks Andr

He was asking who that was because you got his name wrong...

Ok. I admit I made a mistake. So lets correct it "Very well then, Ron Hamilton and Ed Wilson who are connected with Eaglesoft suggest that those of us who use User Names only violate AVSIM's Terms of Use and want to hide who are and tend to have a hidden agenda.Your suspicions are baseless because I am not, and never have been a commercial developer, nor had any connection with one. "Perhaps Ed Wilson would now care to withdraw his unsubstatiated allegation?

I was starting to wonder if Ron and Ed were brothers. It's that whole "Ed Hamilton" thing that mgh might have overlooked. Anyway, I don't know what this thread is about anymore. I've asked for anyone to show me where AVSIM hasn't been fair, and I think we've covered that we are. I agree that some members let there ego or agenda do the talking for them, but nobody has a fair, viable solution. I stand by what I said earlier. Nobody has to be here, but we're grateful for those that are. I'm all ears for any suggestions on how to improve these forums - as far as moderating is concerned - but it doesn't take long before any idea proves to be unfair to the other side. Ron can easily identify those with an agenda? Good. When you see it, PM me. Go ahead and hit the report button, but PM me too. If I find someone with an agenda to bash a developer, or a developer with an agenda, they go the way of the evening newspaper - just remember it takes a bit more than an opinion, I like to see proof of an agenda.Because I get the two confused. I am so screwed when the Mrs sees this.

Yes you are... :( No problem. Wilco on the PM.

Can't we all just get along...Seriously, yes, the commercial members are held to different standards, because of the color of their name, however I don't see any reason why this has to become a free for all deathmatch (save that for Unreal Tournament or Quake folks).