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Sonar5

Question on Flightsim.com....

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You said "I'm a subscriber at fs.com, but prior to joining up....". I thought that was somewhat of an understatement. :) Just wanted to make sure that full disclosure was in effect. :)

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Guest drobson

Of a poor choice of words!;)By "joining up", I should have said "subscribing". As to any question of me being a staffer at fs.com, I am not. I simply volunteered to be a "Moderator", as I've done here 3 or 4 times in the last 3 or 4 years.I'm sure I receive the same kind of pay as the Avsim moderators do. Some praise when you do a good job, and lots of barbs when someone disagrees with the action taken. (If the Avsim mods receive salary, I guess I'm at the wrong spot). :-lolLater,Darrell

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Some moderators should receive, at least, hazarous duty pay. :)Brent

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Hi Max,Just thought I would add a couple cents here. While the Freeware authors do not receive any compensation, some are offered FREE access as a First Class Subscriber. Which means they get a node when they log in, just like the paying members. (Maybe I should make something for free access.. :-lol )When someone that is a paying member talks about how easy it is, I just respect that, because the only experience that matters is your own. :-)The forums have a separate user log-in than the library, so I take it with a grain of salt when someone says they get access.I guess the easiest way to log in would be to buy a membership, but some, like myself, just disagree with the philosophy. No grudge as I enjoy the forums and rarely complain about the way the site is run. And I abide by the rules, as I am a guest there, the same as I am at Avsim.I think Darrell and Jeff do a great job as moderators over there, and you will learn quite a bit from being a member of both forums.I download mainly from the Avsim library simple because it is easier for me, and unbelievably faster, but sometimes you have a file only uploaded to Flightsim.comThere have been times where I have had to hit F5-Enter 157 times (That's my record :-) ) to get in, but that, IMHO, is because of the time I am trying to get files. They have their peak hours there, so I would reccomend if you are not a paying member, schedule your searches at odd times, and most likely you will get in within a few tries. Works for me.I hope this helps,Joe :-wavePS - For the recod, right now is non-peak time and it took me exactly 9 F5-Enters to get in... Well, time to surf their library.. :-) :-)Edit:Ok, I'm done. I just Downloaded the following:A 6E IntruderEA-6B ProwlerNight Textures by Chris Willis :-)New treesDHC6 - OtterLockheed BlackbirdF4-SkyhawkSee, just log in at odd times... :-)End Edit:http://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif


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Guest Jeff S KDTW

Tom-As you know I also volunteer (read: no benefits, not even preferred login access ;-) ) as a moderator at flightsim.com. I frequent both sites (flightsim and Avsim) probably more than I should. ;-) Anyway, Darrell and I have work hard to keep a handle on bashing of other sites at the Flightsim forums. If people have a problem with a site, we ask them to post it at that site, to give them an opportunity to explain or correct, or we simply remove the post. So, I'm a bit surprised that no one in this thread (especially Robert who was the first to respond), other than Darrell, mentioned posting a question/complaint such as this over at Flightsim. Wouldn't Flightsim.com be in a better position to answer such a question? Your response was more to call out a potential conflict of interest--Darrell being a moderator at Flightsim.If in fact that is a conflict of interest, then Robert Kirkland's position as an Associate Publisher of AVSIM AND Member of PSS seems to walk a very tenuous line between journalistic integrity and outright bias. I'm sure that Robert and Avsim can remain impartial when reviews of PSS products are posted, just like Darrell and I can remain impartial when it comes to answering a flightsim.com related question on an Avsim forum.Tom, you and I have conversed occasionally over the years, starting in the old Project Freeware forum. Speaking merely as a long time participant in these forums, I think it is only fair to direct people who have questions/concerns/complaints regarding other sites or design organizations to take it to their respective forums.I hope I haven't offended, because that was not my intent and I've reread this post a few times to hopefully make sure its clear.[hr color=gray]http://home.earthlink.net/~snyders2000/deb.jpg

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Hi Jeff,I'll have to say that since you and Darrell started helping out, the environment has become less hostile. How would this poster be received if such a question been posted there? I have a feeling that he would have been blown out the water by a "select" few. Perhaps he chose to post it here thinking he would have a safe haven. For some reason questions or comments about Flightsim have not been received very well there. However, his post was not derrogatory (sp?) or inflamatory, but used Flightsim as an example.Brent

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Guest Jeff S KDTW

Brent, I certainly respect your opinion from my years of reading your posts and corresponding with you. I also certainly appreciate the kind words. Darrell and I have tried to reel the forums in a bit and I think it is really coming along--although, as you know, it can be an uphill fight at times. :-lol>>How would this poster be received if such a question been posted there? I have a feeling that he would have been blown out the water by a "select" few. Well, being blown out of the water is a tough measure and a bit subjective. :-) There is a huge difference between someone posting a very poignant rebuttal to another's post and someone posting personal attacks, the latter will be quickly removed once an alert is received or we see it ourselves.>>Perhaps he chose to post it here thinking he would have a safe haven. For some reason questions or comments about Flightsim have not been received very well there.Brent, this holds true at both sites. Comments slamming Avsim, posted at Avsim, are not well received by the operators of the site or the dedicated users. There is no difference there. However, the difference lies in comments slamming one site that are posted at another site (by the way, I'm not saying that the original post in this thread was slamming FS, but I'm just making my point since this is the direction the discussion has gone :-)). Darrell and I consistently direct them to post here (and lock the thread) or simply remove the thread entirely and email the poster. Since Darrell and I both frequent both sites, we would love the sites to coexist.>>However, his post was not derrogatory (sp?) or inflamatory, but used Flightsim as an example.Absolutely, correct. I didn't not read his post to be derogatory or inflammatory. However, he did acknowledge that it is not AVSIM related and the subject of his question (financial basis of Flightsim) can only be answered by one person, Nels Anderson. The questions were not general in nature. This only related to flightsim. Nels does answer questions like this.Anyway, Brent, I appreciate the discussion. Considering I don't have a financial interest in either site (flightsim or avsim, yet ;-)), this discussion is really just academic. But for some reason it just seems to strike a cord with me--kind of like talking behind someones back. :-)Take care,[hr color=gray]http://home.earthlink.net/~snyders2000/deb.jpg

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Guest

Jeff that is a cheap shot and you know it. What is the difference in my role at AVSIM and PSS and Tim Dickens' role at FSD and Full Throttle or Just Flight's ownership of PC Pilot just to cite two examples. I am a volunteer here at AVSIM the same as you are at Flightsim.com. If I was to respond to a question about AVSIM at Flightsim.com then I would state in my signature my postion at AVSIM and if it was a PSS question I would do the same. That is all Tom was suggesting you do.http://www.avsim.com/pages/robert/kirkland.jpg

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Guest Jeff S KDTW

Robert- (EDIT : This response was to your PRE-EDITED post. I see that you deleted some of the meat. ;-))>>I challange you publically to find one instance where I have had anything negative to say about any other site or developer. In no way am I trying to imply that you ever said anything negative about any other site or developer. In fact Robert, what I did say specifically was that "Darrell and I can remain impartial when it comes to answering a flightsim.com related question on an Avsim forum" just like "Robert and Avsim can remain impartial when reviews of PSS products are posted." If anything, I was specifically pointing out that you remain impartial (i.e. a compliment). The point was to half-heartedly defend the question raised that Darrell may not be impartial. Our positions as "lowly" moderators ;-) should be less likely of being called into question.I'm sorry if I failed in expressing this. :-)However, I do find it ironic that if you read my post as being an attack on you, then why would you do the same to Tim Dickens and Just Flight's in your response?[hr color=gray]http://home.earthlink.net/~snyders2000/deb.jpg

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Bob beat me to a response. So I will add my comments to his. Nobody said there was a conflict of interest; those are YOUR words. Please don't put words in my mouth.Everybody and their pet rabbit knows Bob volunteers his time here at AVSIM and has done so for 5 years of the 5.2 years we have been in existence. There is a cabal over at the site you volunteer for that repeatedly wants to make a big deal of that fact. So what? I tell you what Jeff, when Lou Betti disassociates himself from FS.com totally, only then will I begin to worry about Bob and PSS. After all, there "must be a conflict of interest" there, what with Lou heading up Dreamfleet, right??? Or at least so goes the logic of the group over there, so why not apply the same standards? Until then, its a whole bunch of disingenious BS being spewed by some self-appointed icons who overlook things like Lou's participation there, and who take every opportunity to take cheap shots at AVSIM. Nothing more. I am glad you jumped into the fray Jeff. All I asked was for Darrell to offer full disclosure in his response regarding a site that he volunteers his time for. Nothing more and nothing less. You have expanded this to include the mud that others seem to want to sling. Now you know why AVSIM has a problem with FS.com - because this kind of crap is allowed to be purveyed over there, with no, none, nada, substance in fact, or challenges regarding the veracity of any of it. And now you come in here and attempt to do the same. Why am I not surprised.

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No body implied Darrell may or may not be impartial. You are reading far more into this than was posted, and it has become obvious why that would be the case. You want to make the point of a potential conflict of interest between Bob and AVSIM. Sorry Jeff, doesn't wash. "I do find it ironic that if you read my post as being an attack on you"Ugh, Jeff, how do I point this out politely.... BECAUSE YOU EFFECTIVELY ACCUSED THE MAN OF NOT HAVING ANY SCRUPLES???? Gee.

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Guest

Are you really sure you want to dance tonight, Robert ?

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