Glass or 'Steam', what's your preference?

[Guest PPSFA]

FSX planes give us so many options now, it's amazing. The only 'glass' we had when I learned to fly was the plexiglass, so I have been a reluctent student of the new glass cockpits. However with all the 'NG' type planes coming to market for FSX, I have had to force myself to learn FMC's, G1000's etc.I still like the older planes but am slowly becomming more of a 'glass guy', but I'm not sure I like it. It seems to me going to glass transitions us from being a pilot to being a 'systems monitor', and it's not quite as much funWhat do others prefer?

[ryanbatc 12,833]

Both. I enjoy the frame rate of a well-programmed acft with steam gauges. But I also enjoy learning the G1000 like yourself, or any other PFD/MFD systems etc

[NetNinja 14]

FSX planes give us so many options now, it's amazing. The only 'glass' we had when I learned to fly was the plexiglass, so I have been a reluctent student of the new glass cockpits. However with all the 'NG' type planes coming to market for FSX, I have had to force myself to learn FMC's, G1000's etc.I still like the older planes but am slowly becomming more of a 'glass guy', but I'm not sure I like it. It seems to me going to glass transitions us from being a pilot to being a 'systems monitor', and it's not quite as much funWhat do others prefer?

I prefer "Steam" gauges for hand flying GA aircraft.I'm not a glass guy per se, so about all I can say is I believe the Analog indicators are a bit more natural to "gauge" than digital readouts wildly incrementing/decrementing. And nobody needs to fly precisely 52kts. For example,VSI: Needle above or below 0?ASI: In the White zone for flaps?Altimeter: Needle steady for trimmed flight?Knowing the various failure modes of the steam instruments is also helpful, rather than a simple black screen of death. Thinking real world a bit.On the other side of the fence, a GPS map beats using 2 VORs to chart your location any day of the week.Bottom line here, you will become accustom to the manner of flying the plane in no time.

[Alan_A 1,650]

In the real world, I'd probably like glass gauges - I'm not a pilot IRL, but I enjoy car electronics, and electronics in general.In the sim I strongly prefer glass gauges for two reasons - first, as others have noted, they usually don't drag down performance, and second, they're much easier to read. The small size of glass gauges in the virtual cockpit makes reading them a challenge. True, you can use larger-scale popups, but that clutters up the screen and gets complicated to manage.Finally - and this applies to both the sim and real life - there's a lot of information available in analog presentations that isn't there in digital. The hands of an altimiter tell you more at a glance than the altitude readout tape on a glass gauge (in the same way, an analog clock tells you more at a glance than a digital clock). Of course there are tradeoffs - a glass gauge can merge several different gauges into a single display. But steam can be useful and informative. It's got charm, too, but that's another matter.Good thread - will be interested to see what others say.Alan

[Brett_Henderson 5]

Depends on the aircraft, and how it will be flown. For a big, fast, multi-engine airplane, where IFR flying is the norm, Glass is better..For light GA, VFR flying, steam is best, because glass is overkill, and if you take that glass cockpit IFR, it's too many egss in one basket.

[michal 44]

In the FSX/FS9 - I still prefer either analog or older generation glass. Not only it looks better but it isalso a lot smoother.Unfortunately there is nothing yet for me within FSX that could give me the fidelity/performance of the G1000 that I want - so I stay away from it. If I want to practice and learn G1000 - I use Garmin's PC trainer.In real life - I flew SR22 with G1000 - absolute Heaven.

[snave 0]

Away from the question of in-sim performance (which means steam for me in FSX with a couple of exceptions) there's simply no substitute for the situational awareness that a competent glass installation can give you. While you have to learn to read the Basic Six, and interpolate what they are telling you, the far more intuitive display and vast information potential of glass is simply a different league. Being firmly attuned to both analogue and digital in the real world, the screen presence of LCD displays and the manner in which they can overly information in a relevant and timely fashion is hugely informative for me. Their only limitation is that they are capable of providing far more information than the average pilot can assimilate, and they really only come to the fore when used with a sophisticated autopilot and the pilot can act as a `systems monitor` in the manner of an airline pilot (although modern GA with the Garmin or Avidyne systems is quite capable of providing more flight information than even a seasoned airline pilot might be used to).One might argue that with a basic six one has to learn to dial in the information, whereas with glass one must learn to dial out the unnecessary... same recalibration as was required in the step from biplane to retractable monoplane.As the `downgraded` systems work their way down the GA market, they are increasingly establishing that less is more, and with Highway In The Sky (HITS) due to provide a simple, clear flight-routeing system integrating graphics and informatics in a more easily interpreted format, I am sure we will see that Glass is Good, even for the most simple of GA. Power requirements are less, maintenance requirements are lower, backup systems are triplicated or even better, resistance to harsh environments far, far higher. Add the weight advantage and reduction in the depth of the behind-panel systematics and inherent reliability of digital technology in harsh environments and you create much better opportunities for rendition than heretofore, although very few manufacturers have delved beyond the `TV screen` mentality thus far.

[flaminghotsauce 1]

I like steam guages and I can not lieYou other brothers can't denyThat when a plane walks in with an itty bitty dashAnd round things in your faceYou get sprungWanna pull up toughCuz you notice that panel was stuffedDeep in the guages she's wearingI'm hooked and I can't stop staringOh, baby I wanna get with ya And take your pictureMy homeboys tried to warn meBut that panel you gotMake Me so oldy

[Guest V4DIV-CVN-70]

I like steam guages and I can not lieYou other brothers can't denyThat when a plane walks in with an itty bitty dashAnd round things in your faceYou get sprungWanna pull up toughCuz you notice that panel was stuffedDeep in the guages she's wearingI'm hooked and I can't stop staringOh, baby I wanna get with ya And take your pictureMy homeboys tried to warn meBut that panel you gotMake Me so oldy

OMG Becky, look at her buttonits so big.Shes like on of those Pilot guys airplanes.

[scott967 62]

I have nothing against glass, but would really like to have the Tinmouse II for FSX.On the glass, what gives me most problems is getting a good handle on the VSI gauge in the airliners and the turn coordination on the G1000 and some comparable.scott s..

[ryanbatc 12,833]

On the G1000 it's pretty much the same principle as with a standard TC.You just make sure the little triangle and the rectangle below it are lined up when you make the turn. If the turn is uncoordinated - the small rectangle will either indicate a slip or skid depending on what side of the triangle it's on.

[Geofa 108]

Away from the question of in-sim performance (which means steam for me in FSX with a couple of exceptions) there's simply no substitute for the situational awareness that a competent glass installation can give you. While you have to learn to read the Basic Six, and interpolate what they are telling you, the far more intuitive display and vast information potential of glass is simply a different league. Being firmly attuned to both analogue and digital in the real world, the screen presence of LCD displays and the manner in which they can overly information in a relevant and timely fashion is hugely informative for me. Their only limitation is that they are capable of providing far more information than the average pilot can assimilate, and they really only come to the fore when used with a sophisticated autopilot and the pilot can act as a `systems monitor` in the manner of an airline pilot (although modern GA with the Garmin or Avidyne systems is quite capable of providing more flight information than even a seasoned airline pilot might be used to).One might argue that with a basic six one has to learn to dial in the information, whereas with glass one must learn to dial out the unnecessary... same recalibration as was required in the step from biplane to retractable monoplane.As the `downgraded` systems work their way down the GA market, they are increasingly establishing that less is more, and with Highway In The Sky (HITS) due to provide a simple, clear flight-routeing system integrating graphics and informatics in a more easily interpreted format, I am sure we will see that Glass is Good, even for the most simple of GA. Power requirements are less, maintenance requirements are lower, backup systems are triplicated or even better, resistance to harsh environments far, far higher. Add the weight advantage and reduction in the depth of the behind-panel systematics and inherent reliability of digital technology in harsh environments and you create much better opportunities for rendition than heretofore, although very few manufacturers have delved beyond the `TV screen` mentality thus far.

You might want to read the aopa study on glass vs. steam. We had a thread about it about 5 months ago. Very interesting reading. Glass safer in certain hours and modes and more dangerous in others.

[LAdamson 240]

In real life, I have "steam", but would overall prefer glass, as a number of friends have glass panels that I use from time to time. I do use a Garmin 696 portable which replicates a lot of the Garmin 1000 features in regards to navigation, terrain/obsticle, and satellite weather. It also drives my auto-pilot.Someday. I'll upgrade to glass with dual screens and synthetic vision. In the experimental aircraft market, it's much cheaper that going some certified routes. In some way's I find steam gauges such as airspeed & rate of climb easier to read, but you can get use to it quickly with glass too. Glass panels can provide instant true airspeed & wind direction, which has to be hand calculated with normal steam instrumentation. It's also easy to move a lot of information from screen to screen with glass systems. For flight simming, I just don't find the glass panels easy enough to read, and I tend to avoid them. Products such as the Garmin 1000's, and numerous others are very easy to read in the real aircraft. Synthetic vision is becoming quite popular, and is marvelous for IFR operations. It's even good for VFR, since there is always the occasion of becoming IMC in what was suppose to be VFR conditions. As far as I'm concerned, students who learn from day one with glass panels such as the Garmin 1000 in Cessna 172's or Diamond DA40's are better off. In fact, it's been proven through side by side test's, that they're better off. They learned navigation quicker, and finished the PPL sooner.And BTW---- having glass does not make one a systems monitor instead of flying....even in GA VFR I prefer automation with my six pac gauges..... as I do have a two axis auto-pilot that will follow what's ever programmed in the GPS. It's not all that fun to hold a stick or yoke for hundreds of miles at a time. I'd just as soon look around, scan for traffic, check the sectionals, and so on.At the end of the day, GPS driven glass will be much safer. Especially with synthetic vision, that replicates topography as we're already use to with flight simming. It's going to solve a lot of problems that VOR's could never do.L.Adamson

You might want to read the aopa study on glass vs. steam. We had a thread about it about 5 months ago. Very interesting reading. Glass safer in certain hours and modes and more dangerous in others.

That's why new students will be better off using glass from day one. It's those, that are not familier enough with glass, that have the problems. Glass is the future, and for good reasons, so get use to it........I'd say.L.Adamson

[Geofa 108]

In real life, I have "steam", but would overall prefer glass, as a number of friends have glass panels that I use from time to time. I do use a Garmin 696 portable which replicates a lot of the Garmin 1000 features in regards to navigation, terrain/obsticle, and satellite weather. It also drives my auto-pilot.Someday. I'll upgrade to glass with dual screens and synthetic vision. In the experimental aircraft market, it's much cheaper that going some certified routes. In some way's I find steam gauges such as airspeed & rate of climb easier to read, but you can get use to it quickly with glass too. Glass panels can provide instant true airspeed & wind direction, which has to be hand calculated with normal steam instrumentation. It's also easy to move a lot of information from screen to screen with glass systems. For flight simming, I just don't find the glass panels easy enough to read, and I tend to avoid them. Products such as the Garmin 1000's, and numerous others are very easy to read in the real aircraft. Synthetic vision is becoming quite popular, and is marvelous for IFR operations. It's even good for VFR, since there is always the occasion of becoming IMC in what was suppose to be VFR conditions. As far as I'm concerned, students who learn from day one with glass panels such as the Garmin 1000 in Cessna 172's or Diamond DA40's are better off. In fact, it's been proven through side by side test's, that they're better off. They learned navigation quicker, and finished the PPL sooner.And BTW---- having glass does not make one a systems monitor instead of flying....even in GA VFR I prefer automation with my six pac gauges..... as I do have a two axis auto-pilot that will follow what's ever programmed in the GPS. It's not all that fun to hold a stick or yoke for hundreds of miles at a time. I'd just as soon look around, scan for traffic, check the sectionals, and so on.At the end of the day, GPS driven glass will be much safer. Especially with synthetic vision, that replicates topography as we're already use to with flight simming. It's going to solve a lot of problems that VOR's could never do.L.AdamsonThat's why new students will be better off using glass from day one. It's those, that are not familier enough with glass, that have the problems. Glass is the future, and for good reasons, so get use to it........I'd say.L.Adamson

Well I couldn't find the thread at this late hour for me where I posted the aopa link...but if I recall-those with in between 0-1000 hours the rates were much worse for those with glass, along with those who did not frequently fly. I know our CAP aircraft has a g1000-and I've gotten a verbal from a lot of the "weekend" flyers that they don't feel up to snuff when not flying on a frequent basis as they do with steam.I do know one of the near collisions I had was with a Cirrus pilot-who must have had his/her head down punching buttons as they reported themselves completely on the wrong side of the airport and instead flew right thru the ils as I was making an approach getting the wrath of the controllers.I love glass and would prefer to have it myself-but like all technolgies that are supposed to better mankind/womenkind there seem to always be flaws when humans get involved. Then there is the case of the ferry pilot taking a plane from europe to the usa with extra gas tanks. The g1000 couldn't cope with the xtra tanks as the programers had never anticipated such,the system crashed, and refused to reboot-while the pilot was in imc over the Atlantic. Luckily there were backup steam gauges. <edit> I found one of the articles:http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/topics/TAA2007.pdf

"Pilot experience is another area of interest when examining

TAA safety (Figures 5 and 6, p. 12). When looking

at total time in all aircraft, pilots with 1,000 hours or

fewer are more likely to experience a mishap in a glass

cockpit aircraft than in a traditional GA aircraft. Fatal

accidents in TAA were more common for even more

experienced pilots, with those logging 1,500 or fewer

hours having over 85 percent of fatal TAA accidents,

compared to 57 percent for the fleet.

Time in type was also problematic for the TAA pilot,

with 300 hours in type or less accounting for more accidents

in TAA than GA in general (Figures 9 and 10).

This was even more exaggerated in fatal accidents

where the TAA risk factor went up to 500 hours in type"<edit> found the second one:http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/inst_...fm?article=5958

[Milviz 919]

Well, from a dev's point of view, building a 3d "steam" gauge is considerably more "interesting" (i.e. harder) than building a "glass" screen. No moving parts. However, the coding side is WAY more complex and, worse yet, it does have quite the tendency to slow the system(s) down. All in all, as a dev, I much prefer steam gauges for the planes we build BUT... for flying... glass all the way...kc