Re_install 747

[gillesdenice 0]

Hello,I had to reinstall all FS2004.In the new FS2004, i first install 737/600-700-800-900 then MD-11, my two preferred birds.But, after some months, i would re-install the 747-400/400F.All the install was ok, i upgrade my 747 up to v1.2, and the 747 appearing in FS2004.But when i would like to initiate a flight at LFMN with the OKTET5A SID (Airac 0913), i discover that the speed constraint of 210 kts at MN044 fix was not in the FMC, although this constraint is in good place when i fly with the 737 or the MD11.I try to put it manually, as "210/" (no altitude restriction at this fix), but the fmc tells me "Invalid entry", it's only valid with an altitude constraint too.Nethermind, i write 210/2000 , but when airborne and in VNAV, the speed constraint is not respected, i have to manage it with the SPD button.Another bug too : the MN044 fix is an "overfly" fix, this overfly property is respected in both 737 and MD11, but not respected in my 747.Do u have a solution to fix these problems ?Regards,Gilles Menghetti.

[downscc 1,327]

My guess would be that 210 KIAS is not a safe speed for the 747 as configured. You mean OKTE5A? It has the speed constraint you refer to in my copy of 0913. Therefore, it must be the safe speed issue which comes up here often because the 747 will often need to get above 250 on initial climb and folks get confused with how that "speed restriction" applies. Bottom line, don't go slower than safe to do so.

[dazz 69]

But you should be able to make it with proper flaps config, shouldn't you?I remember having flown a SID in LEPA limiting speed to 210 knots in PETAM (in a left turn that if made faster would have gotten me way too far from the route)

[gillesdenice 0]

You mean OKTE5A? It has the speed constraint you refer to in my copy of 0913.

Yes, of course, the 210kts is effective in the text of the sid.But, when i choose the OKTET5A SID on the FMC of the 747 and next click on the LEG page, the 210 kts speed constraint is not written.Gilles Menghetti

[downscc 1,327]

You won't fly this SID using VNAV because you will have to keep the departure configuration dirty to stay slow and use MCP SPD. I'm not sure this is how the real guys do it, is this a common SID for heavy traffic? Low, slow, heavy and max power ... whew, sounds dangerous.Okay, got curious and went to eurocontrol and looked at the chart book. The procedure requires a 90 deg turn immediately on reaching 400 agl so that's why they are calling for the speed constraint: To keep you away from the beaches along the coate d'azure. I'd be very surprised if you confirmed that 747's operated out of Nice.

[gillesdenice 0]

Okay, got curious and went to eurocontrol and looked at the chart book. The procedure requires a 90 deg turn immediately on reaching 400 agl so that's why they are calling for the speed constraint: To keep you away from the beaches along the coate d'azure. I'd be very surprised if you confirmed that 747's operated out of Nice.

Hello downscc,I live just overhead the runways 04L/04R 22L/22R of LFMN, and i listen to real freqs since 35 years.And yes, of course, 747-100, -200, and -400 operated and operates out of Nice and on all departures (A departures = RNAV) (E departures = Non-RNAV) ----> Even an empty A380 has landed in 2008.But, and that why i think it's a bug on my PMDG 747, before i RE-install FS2004, i had the PMDG 744 installed on FS2004, and everything goes well.Please can you try to load the oktet5A departures on your 747 PMDG FMC and tell me if you see the 210 kts speed constraint for fix MN044 in the LEGS page of the FMC ? Because for me, it's in the sid text files (LFMN.txt) but not appearing on the FMC LEG page.Thx a lot sir. =)Gilles Menghetti

[downscc 1,327]

Per request, I loaded OKTE5A in the 747 at LFMN and confirmed that the speed constraint does not appear in the LEGS route segments. I do not think this is wrong, because the FMC will probably reject any speed that is below clean safe climb speed. This is different in the 747 than 737.As I suggested, you will not be engaging VNAV until you have cleared the MN044 fix, using instead MCP SPEED and either LNAV or handflying (my preference) the departure turn until established on a safe climb.I'd like to see some videos of 747-400's departing Nice on the NE departures. Must be something to see them yank and bank that low and slow.

[Turbine777 13]

,,, Must be something to see them yank and bank that low and slow.

No kidding, I'd like to see the same. That doesn't appear that safe at all.

[gillesdenice 0]

Ok, i read the manual again, and i didn't remember of that piece at page 26 of the FMC User manual : "Speed Constraints: Speed constraints canbe used by the crew to comply with ATCassigned speed constraints directlyassociated with a particular navigation fix.E.g.

[downscc 1,327]

Okay. However, the speed constraint in the sidstar procedure does not require an altitude. You can enter a speed from 100-400 but you're the pilot in command.